Local Dopers - Forum Archive

Jul 23, 2012 at 04:22 PM

I like the guy, but this is bullshit. Maybe I'm naive.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/david-anthony-tests-positive

Who knew that doping controls at the GF would actually matter.

mugwump

Jul 23, 2012 at 03:44 PM

In case you were wondering how David Anthony "did it."

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/david-anthony-tests-positive

Kudos to GFNY for dope testing. Who'da thunk a non-sanctioned race would actually test when our sanctioned races don't.

Jules

Jul 23, 2012 at 04:02 PM

Holy.Shit.

Jules
917-818-1362

On Jul 23, 2012, at 11:44 AM, mugwump wrote:

In case you were wondering how David Anthony "did it."
http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/david-anthony-tests-positive
Kudos to GFNY for dope testing. Who'da thunk a non-sanctioned race would actually test when our sanctioned races don't.

dstokes

Jul 23, 2012 at 04:31 PM

I suppose this is what it took to get his upgrade. Completely reprehensible. But good on GF for making the effort. Makes me want to support it next year.

05/28/2012 - Killington Stage Race \| Road Race \| Cat 2 \| \|
49	282.17	David Anthony	280592	2:46:59	200	CRCA/BH Comedy Central

05/28/2012 - Killington Stage Race \| Stage Race \| Cat 2 \| \|
49	-	David Anthony	280592	6:36:12	200	CRCA/BH Comedy Central

05/27/2012 - Killington Stage Race \| Time Trial \| Cat 2 \| \|
16	433.99	David Anthony	280592	24:59.5	200	CRCA/BH Comedy Central

05/26/2012 - Killington Stage Race \| Road Race \| Cat 2 \| \|
69	296.40	David Anthony	280592	3:24:14	200	CRCA/BH Comedy Central

05/19/2012 - CRCA Racing Series 2012 \| Road Race \| Cat 1/2/3 \| \|
22	351.44	David Anthony	280592			BH/Comedy Central

05/12/2012 - Hunter Mountain Spring Classic \| Road Race \| Cat 3 \| \|
26	371.59	David Anthony	280592	3:19:43	151	CRCA/BH Comedy Central

05/06/2012 - The Tour of the Dragons \| Stage Race \| Cat 3 \| \|
2	-	David Anthony	280592	4:05:14	232	CRCA/BH Comedy Central

05/06/2012 - The Tour of the Dragons \| Road Race \| Cat 3 \| \|
11	350.61	David Anthony	280592	2:50:13	232	CRCA/BH Comedy Central

05/05/2012 - The Tour of the Dragons \| Time Trial \| Cat 3 \| \|
1	441.34	David Anthony	280592	25:31.8	232	CRCA/BH Comedy Central

05/05/2012 - The Tour of the Dragons \| Criterium \| Cat 3 \| \|
15	381.30	David Anthony	280592	0:49:29	232	CRCA/BH Comedy Central

05/01/2012 - Tuesday Night Race Series \| Road Race \| Cat 1/2/3 \| \|
35	356.44	David Anthony	280592	1:00:27	20	BH/Comedy Central

04/14/2012 - Tour of the Battenkill Pro/Am \| Road Race \| Cat 3 \| Pink \|
1	220.83	David Anthony	280592	02:46:06	602	CRCA/BH Comedy Central

Thierry Bonnaire

Jul 23, 2012 at 04:57 PM

How can amateurs resort to doping is absolutely incomprehensible to me. Disgusting.

kieranleahy

Jul 23, 2012 at 04:57 PM

Jesus, that is fcked up. What an idiot - why would anyone ever dope for any amateur race of any kind?! Taking emulation of certain pros too far! (Plus anyway, EPO is like, so 1990s, man.)

Do you think there are other guys doping locally? Hard to say I guess. But like you both say, it justifies having controls.

Jeffrey White

Jul 23, 2012 at 05:12 PM

Seriously, I would throw in some money to get some drug testing in all the categories. Imagine if it were announced that a random L&C race were to have a doping control. How much does it cost?

dstokes

Jul 23, 2012 at 05:18 PM

Do you think there are other guys doping locally?

Yes.

Here is a comment on the announcement from Ken Harris, to give a little historical perspective:

We should have a panel discussion where all the local dopers get together and take questions. Pulla, Jared, DA, Lisban, and Papp to start. After stealing our results, it's the least they can do. Door take goes toward some random testing.

Jeffrey White

Jul 23, 2012 at 05:33 PM

Check out Vlad's comment from 10 days ago:

http://kissenacycling.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/24343/#Comment_24343

Can the entire BH team be suspected now?

dstokes

Jul 23, 2012 at 05:45 PM

$420 gets you an upgrade!

http://www.24hoursppc.biz/products/epo_erythropoietin/

Jeffrey White

Jul 23, 2012 at 05:48 PM

@dstokes

The copy on that page is absolutely breathtaking.

"EPO has put a whole new spin on blood doping. No need for messy transfusions, just shoot up with EPO to increase your circulating erythrocyte mass.

EPO is actually not that dangerous a product to use if it is used PROPERLY, and one's blood is monitored. With proper blood work, and boosting to a safe level (typically max of 53-54% for elite level endurance athlete, while it's around 40% for "normal" people) there shouldn't be major complications"

Craig Zolan

Jul 23, 2012 at 05:49 PM

It is messed up, though not surprising unfortunately. I suspect it is far more common than we think because enforcement is non-existent.

@Jeff - I was thinking the same thing and I've contacted USADA to see how much contract testing costs. I'd agree that testing at a single L&C race would put the appropriate chill on local racer's doping. It won't end it but it will diminish it.

I suspect that this article has been posted before, but for those that haven't read it, the author of the Outside article doped and raced with the intent to disclose the effects on an amateur bike racer.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/dropping-in/I-Couldn-t-Be-More-Positive.html?page=all

and his book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Doper-Next-Door-Performance-Enhancing/dp/1582437157

JohnMalcolmson

Jul 23, 2012 at 05:50 PM

Wowsers! What a tool.

Here's a thought:

Bertucco to commandeers a few urine sample jars and roll up to the next park race in WADA Hasmat suits.

JohnMalcolmson

Jul 23, 2012 at 05:51 PM

P.S.

Did you see DA won the tour of the Bahamas last year? I think they'll be wanting their Conch trophy back.

Jeff Owens

Jul 23, 2012 at 05:52 PM

That is hilarious. 45+ doping and gets busted even though they ANNOUNCED they were going to have controls at the GF. Absolutely beyond funny.

And good on Harris for speaking up as one of the elder local ass kickers.

Seriously, I wonder how many guys would get busted if they tested the next Prospect Masters and p123 fields. I would guess at least 10. So pathetic it's awesome.

vlad

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:02 PM

Can the entire BH team be suspected now?

Definitely makes me wonder about the killer month Kyle Murphy's having. I don't like suspecting people like that. I like the Murphy brothers too. If they're guilty, then that's inexcusable. If they're not, then they don't deserve the speculation. It's a fucked up situation. It's best to stay clean and avoid all this stuff, but I know how tempting these drugs can be for some.

Doping sucks. Don't do it. Race within your own means and let the cards fall where it may.

Jules

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:03 PM

My two posts on the subject:

"I was using ways to improve my performance that were cheating"

Yeah, you weren't cheating you were 'using ways'

If you are willing to cheat yourself who WON'T you cheat?

*********************************************************************

DA has destroyed that which he most adored, his "place" in local cycling and his ability to ride, train and race with good people.

He will never be welcome or trusted again in most circles.

That should be it's own punishment, but I'd like to see him return his winnings.

Where there is smoke there is fire; we can't pretend he is the only one; he is just the most recent one who is dumb enough to get caught.

There are others and they continue to train and race with us... so if you are doing well and clean then most people suspect you of cheating because of guys like DA.

DA has stolen more than winnings from his competitors. Has has eroded our trust in each other, diminished our sense of satisfaction from hard-fought results and set an unrealistic image of "how" to win.

I would gladly pay extra registration fees to support testing.

As for the "I acted alone" bullshit, nobody is listening. Tell the truth or get lost.

Jules

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:04 PM

Seriously, how much would it change the registration fee to include testing for anyone in the money?

Jules

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:10 PM

That is hilarious. 45+ doping and gets busted even though they ANNOUNCED they were going to have controls at the GF. Absolutely beyond funny.

And good on Harris for speaking up as one of the elder local ass kickers.

Seriously, I wonder how many guys would get busted if they tested the next Prospect Masters and p123 fields. I would guess at least 10. So pathetic it's awesome.

totally agree. My comments are here on the other thread; I'd be happy to pay an extra 10 bucks to race where there was testing for anyone in the money.

Adam

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:16 PM

We should have a club vote on whether we should have one or more doping controls at our club affiliated races. Of course, if the club wants it then the club pays for it.

How much can a 3 sample test cost (winners of the 123, master and cat4 fields) for a race? A few thousand bucks? If every entry fee had an additional dollar attached (as for the ambulance fee) and Kissena added another $500... One random test in an entire serious would be enough to put off a lot of people, no?

I wouldn't really care so much about the results, but I think it would be a cool reputation for the club to have. Like Garmin, but actually with a team which doesn't dope.

dstokes

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:18 PM

Combine a BIG prize list with announced doping control.
See who shows up.

Charlie I. Are you listening?

Is this something Kissena should sponsor? What a great way to distinguish ourselves from CRCA.

Craig Zolan

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:20 PM

Obviously, I'm all for it. I'll let everyone know what the pricing for testing is once I hear back from USADA.

There was a second positive test at GFNY too. The athlete is having the B sample tested.

http://www.prlog.org/11931719-two-cyclists-tested-positive-for-epo-at-gran-fondo-new-york-2012.html

Jeffrey White

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:21 PM

Maybe we could approach the rich dude behind the velodrome grant.

dstokes

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:21 PM

He will never be welcome or trusted again in most circles.
That should be it's own punishment, but I'd like to see him return his winnings.

Um. Jared Bunde is back to racing with the people he loves. People were really upset when he was popped. But time mends almost everything.

Jules

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:23 PM

This discussion was created from comments split from: In Print: Articles of Interest.

Jules

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:23 PM

I merged the In Print DA comments into "Local Dopers"

mugwump

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:50 PM

Turns out, a second person tested positive at GFNY

http://www.prlog.org/11931719-two-cyclists-tested-positive-for-epo-at-gran-fondo-new-york-2012.html

For those who aren't familiar with GF's in Italy, know that they constitute a sort of racing circuit. Shortly after Raimondas Rumsas scored an unexpected podium at hte Tour, his wife was caught with illegal drugs in her car. She did six months, I believe. But Lampre sacked him. The next year, he was killing it on the GF circuit. GF's are also was Joe Papp was doing for money when he got popped at the Tour of Turkey. Doping certainly looked rampant at Italian GFs, and there was no testing.

I also found this http://www.floridacleanridefund.com/ This is interesting to me because when I was in Florida some years ago, I rode with a big wheel in the florida racing association. He said they had the money for testing, but USAC was discouraging them.

mperlberg

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:51 PM

I can't wait until I get old and rich and delusional enough to think my hobby is so important that I should risk my health.

Before you cast stones at other clubs and riders, realize how easily a teammate could be doping without you knowing it. Cough Jeff Owens does speed cough cough.

Jules

Jul 23, 2012 at 06:58 PM

Lucky for us they don't have breathalizers before races. I think our beer snobs would be more likely to trip those than anything!

Joking aside, remember that Banker that got busted for insider trading - the guy who chopped up the hard drives and walked around town depositing the pieces into different dumpsters?

Not exactly a stranger to local racing either. I wonder where he'd be ranking if he hadn't taken a detour to PMITA prison?

dstokes

Jul 23, 2012 at 07:01 PM

Before you cast stones at other clubs and riders, realize how easily a teammate could be doping without you knowing it.

I wasn't meaning to cast stones. Just looking for something to distinguish ourselves, much as GF has done in this regard. Charlie I has already been innovative in increasing the safety of races and in giving kits to the series leaders. This seems like it could be another step forward.

Jules

Jul 23, 2012 at 07:02 PM

The copy on that page is absolutely breathtaking.

"EPO has put a whole new spin on blood doping. No need for messy transfusions, just shoot up with EPO to increase your circulating erythrocyte mass.
EPO is actually not that dangerous a product to use if it is used PROPERLY, and one's blood is monitored. With proper blood work, and boosting to a safe level (typically max of 53-54% for elite level endurance athlete, while it's around 40% for "normal" people) there shouldn't be major complications"

I completely agree by the way - this is nothing short of jaw-dropping.

I wonder what constitutes "minor" complications?