Kissena Forum Archive

Cyclocross!

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Wow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0qhLn1Hz6w&t=3m50s
Waiting for pro women to kick off, then the pro men with the addition of Powers and Johnson are going off. Garrigan is going to have his work cut out for him if he wants another podium. Super technical course today, and in the random draw lottery staging game? Worse. Of course. Eighth row. And it might as well have been the tenth row, because you would not believe the jamokes in front of me. "Really, you're going to fall off your bike there? That's awesome, because if there's anything I feel my crossing has been missing this year is being forced off my bike 5 times in the first lap while I wait for you to get your bike out of your ass." So frustrating, I nearly quit 2 laps into the 5 lap race. But that would have been stupid too. So instead I just put me head down and rode. Passing riders, cruising through groups and sprinting to come within mm of beating a dufus who thought it was safe to sit up. I actually thought I beat him but the finish line dude gave me 31st place. There were some unexpected positives, including an amazing breakfast place on the grounds of an apple orchard, which features my new favorite cider donuts (sorry Atkins Farm in Northampton). Also fun to pull up to our Motel 6 to be greeted by a half naked woman peering out a cracked door, while two cop cars tore around the parking lot, and getting a report from Sarah that the vending machine in the lobby was out of condoms.
Woah, that video rocks, Jules.  Pretty incredible how fast they're going, let alone in those conditions.  I'm sure it would've been ten times more impressive in person.
Well that was cold. 35 degree at start. Smaller 30ish person field. Tailed in at 20th but didn't warm up till 4 out of 6 laps. Could have used a couple more. Best two laps were 4 and 5. Course was basic, no sand, no mud, 2dismounts, one solid run up. Basic no frills race but good time. Hope the super cross race isn't like that or I'm riding there to be ready.

SCCX race report.

David Sanossian and I lined up for the 40+ C race at SCCX in Hamburg NJ today. The race was in a new venue because it too had been displaced by a FEMA staging area this year. The course was around a high school with plenty of climbing, lots of off camber riding, a sweeping off-camber S-turn descent, long (and windy!) power sections, a steep run up and finish on an uphill (~3%) paved section with a nasty crosswind. 

It was in the high 30s and windy which wasn’t so bad during the race itself, but like a toothache wouldn’t be ignored during warm up and post race.  A lot of riders (and their significant others) were waiting in their cars with the engine running. David and I walked about a city block to the unheated bathroom by the football field to change into our kits. As we were going to find out during the race there was no shelter from the wind.

Probably about 20-25 guys showed up for the race. The hole shot was up the climb and I was about 5th into the turn.  Full of adrenaline, I quickly moved up whenever a gap opened up ahead. I was on the tail of the first place rider as we approached the finish line for the first lap. He sensed that I was there and pulled wide so as not to let me a draft.  I pulled up to the foot of the hill where he opened up a small gap on the climb. I closed the gap on the power section and made the same bargain with him to work together that worked so well for Marc last week.

I took the lead during the uphill and sweeping downhill section as there was little benefit to drafting and let him lead during the power section. This worked well as we had a huge gap on the 3rd place rider (A BH guy). The guy I was riding with had been smoother than I had been on the sweeping section so I attacked him on the last time up the climb. I got a good gap and kept the pressure on. I was giving it all I had. My legs were starting to burn and my heart rate was starting to spike. I couldn’t let up as I could sense that he was only a few bike lengths behind.

By the time I crested the run up he had caught up to me. Damn it. All that was left was a twisty off camber downhill section followed by the pavement sprint into a crosswind. He was in my draft so I took it slow through the twisty section to get my heart rate back down before the sprint.

The finishing straight was up a service road that curved to the right with a crosswind from the front/right. As we got to the pavement I started the sprint by swinging wide to the left to force him into the wind. He took the direct line to the finish into the wind and had enough left in is legs to come around me and take the finish by a bike length. There was a turn right after the finish line, but he kept riding directly into a taped section in front of us, sort of “marathon winner” style. Not what the promoters had planned.

I finished second. Wished I had held him off longer or managed the sprint better, but was pleased to actually use tactics in a CX race. My previous two 3rd place results consisted of “go as hard as you can TT efforts” for the duration of the races. There wasn’t much in terms of drafting or attacking.

David and I did not wait around in the cold for the results or my 2nd place medal. I think David managed a solid 10th. He hated the run up (he called it a walk up) more than I did. Good times.

!!!! Woooot !!!!

Nicely done, sir, nicely done.  Love nor money could not have coaxed me out today in a skin suit today.  Still shivering from Grant's Tomb this spring :)
Nice Patrick and David.....  Hopefully they'll be back at the fairgrounds next year.
Im going to Sunday's race in Wachtung this weekend. Doing the B's. Will be close but should be back to Bkyn for party in time. Need a ride? let me know.

Hotlist is concerned. The season started strong with enthusiastic participation and disregard for all other responsibilities beyond deciding between Fangos and Grifos on sweet Saturdays and Sundays. But things, apparently, have tragically changed.

And now, this forum is full of "maybe I'll go--maybe I'll won't," messages, guys registering for races, then putting on their DNS jerseys, screen shots of power records on some ride that you and some other dude decided was going to be the championship ride of the season, instead of reports of guys actually racing and kicking ass. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

Listen, there are scant few weeks left of cross racing, and soon, in the dead of January and February you and your significant others will wish you had an excuse to get out of the house on a weekend. So let's get moving folks. This week's Hotlist features the guys who are not on a 2-week taper for the Kissena Club CX championship and have actually raced at least once in the last two weeks.

  1. Todd McLoughlin. Dude is back on top. His third 17th of the season, Todd lined up and raced well against some tough competition in a 1/2/3 race including Dan Chabanov and Todd Bowden. If it's below 65 degrees for the club champs, hotlist might have to give the edge to Todd over Eric "I'm Freezing and/or hibernating" Ragot.

  2. Marc Bertucco. Making the jump of the week due entirely to the fact that almost none of his interclub competition has raced in over 2 weeks, Bertucco followed up a team Cat 4 40+ win at Bubble Cross, with a solo win in the "4/5" category at Hop Brook the next weekend. Two wins in two weeks, not too shabby. Most recently, despite being handed a back 1/3 start line position, Bertucco finished in the top 1/3 of the field against tough New England crowd at Bay State (where it was 26 degrees and windy).

  3. Patrick Grehan. The results haven't been posted on crossresults yet, but Patrick raced SCCX in New Jersey in the Cat 4 40+ category and raced like a champ to secure 2nd place to follow up two 3rds earlier this season. Hotlist is tempted to kick Patrick down to the bottom of the hotlist for not securing his medal and podium pic, but since the weather was frigid and these podium ceremonies take roughly two days to happen, he'll keep his proper position on the list.

  4. Dan Strika. Went down to Kutztown and did the double. Again. This time his second race was a cat 2/3/4 race! Yikes. Solid finish against tough competition earning him his best crossresults points and best placing on the hotlist of the season.

  5. Dan Hubbard. Was at SCCX, racing, Hotlist assumes the cat 3 race and finished a workman-like 20th place. We'll never know what could have been if Hubbard had warmed up properly for the race.

  6. David Sanossian. Raced with Patrick at SCCX and according to Patrick's report cracked the top 10. That's a damn fine result and worthy of his placing on this week's list.

One Cx race left. Watch out.
Horseshoe Scramble
Watchung, NJ
Sunday, December 02, 2012
https://www.bikereg.com/Net/17358
I'm thinking about the 40+ race as I need to get back to the city.

Anyone else?
family commitments - xmas stuff with the kids. good luck boys,,,,C u at the party

BTW - for us polar bears out there, De Koude ras in Morristown NJ on 12/15. i am doing it, then folding up the tent.....

Did anyone else read the email from USA Cyling regarding Cyclocross upgrades????

Seems that our days of dominating the Cat 4 Old Guy race are over.

 

Cyclo-cross upgrades<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

The Cyclo-cross upgrade section was rewritten to more closely match the road. There are two ways to upgrade, voluntary and mandatory. The number of points is now given for each of the mandatory upgrades. Please note that junior women are exempt from a mandatory upgrade to Category 2

Cyclo-cross riders must upgrade from Category 4 to Category 3 after either competing in 10 qualifying races or accruing 10 points.

Category 3 riders may upgrade to Category 2 with 10 points. Amassing 15 points or two wins in a field of at least 30 competitors is a mandatory upgrade.

Category 2 riders may upgrade to Category 1 voluntarily with 20 points. Category 2 riders receive a mandatory upgrade after amassing either 25 points or two wins in a field of at least 40 competitors.

 

Oh, and for road, points no longer expire after 12 months.

And 20 pack finishes in Cat 4 races with over 50 riders allows you to upgrade from 4 to 3.

What the what?!?

In other news, I'm mr mom Sunday so no racing for me :( but lots of stories and play :) not a bad trade but I won't (hopefully) taste any blood...
Yikes...this is going to be a serious problem. The cat 3 fields will not be able to handle the amount of riders forced to upgrade.

The problem here is that unlike road where getting from 5 to 4 is mostly about learning how to ride briskly and safely in a pack, many, many cat 4s in cross are this category because of limitations in training time, genetics or both. There's just no way some people are ever going to truly be ready for Cat 3 cross racing. It's simply beyond most people.

And racing 10 races as a cat 4 means jack. How did you do in those races? Are you going to force the dude who finishes in the bottom 1/3 of the cat 4 field to upgrade to cat 3 just because he started 10 races? That MAKES NO SENSE.

On the other hand, if you've got 350-380 crossresults.com point you have no business racing cat 4s anymore.




And racing 10 races as a cat 4 means jack. How did you do in those races? Are you going to force the dude who finishes in the bottom 1/3 of the cat 4 field to upgrade to cat 3 just because he started 10 races? That MAKES NO SENSE.


i agree with this point but...

Overall, if we start pushing folks up the ladder, maybe we'll see fuller cat 3 / cat 123 fields. Right now having huge cat 4 fields and 25-30 rider fields everywhere else isn't sustainable. Plus, many of those upgraded cat 4 riders will have the choice between the b field and the elite masters field. not such a bad thing.

the top cat 3 riders will also get pushed up pretty quickly - and will gain more points because of larger fields. 
I think I'm going to have to blog about this topic, because it's got me kind of fired up. The blog will be better and more well thought out than the following blather I'm about to spew but...

Look, I'm one of the guys who is going to upgrade for next year, but it's taken me 3 full seasons, plus this year where I've already done 18 cross races to know that despite some unimpressive results (largely in the big new England races where I've been finishing in the high 20s to low 30s), it's just about time for me to go.

I'm all for mandatory upgrades but there are better ways to do it...I'm lining up ranked 23rd this weekend at NBX and let me tell you about 15 of the people in front of me have no business racing cat 4s anymore. How do I know? Well, look at there results, top 10 every race they do, 360-something crossresults points. It's a little ridiculous. Meanwhile, even I know that at a very fair 417 point Cat 4 level (in my opinion), it's time to give those guys with 450-550 points a chance to race at the front.

As far as numbers, the cat 3 fields are going to get crushed with this new rule. As it was this year, there are 85 Cat 3s preregister for NBX this weekend. Northampton had 125 cat 3s, even Bubble Cross, a small, rescheduled race had 46 finishers, Cooper River 50+.
I agree with the points idea put forth by Marc. Folks with low points, maybe below 400 should be upgraded, but an automatic upgrade at 10 races means nothing. For some people, the thing about cross is that you can be competitive and still have a full-time job and a family. I'm not going anywhere, but i hope this doesn't push some people out of racing. It seems ironic......cross is on the rise, and USAC is employing a policy which might be counterproductive.It also will keep some people from being able to race their age. I have been digging the 40+ cat 4 races this season, and I do not think that 40+ cat 3 races exist. Time to start training...Where are my rollers!!!
You know, thinking about it, if cat 4's are automatically bumped up to cat 3, and, as Mike said, good cat 3's get bumped due to higher points caused by larger fields, in a sense cat 3 could almost become a sort of cat 4 field on sportbeans. It could, in a sense, make cat 3 a little LESS competitive than it is now.

I also think you'll start seeing a lot more "b-masters" fields - 35/40+ cat 3/4 only.

promoters will know what racers want. 


I sense that the knee jerk outrage from Jim's post is diminishing. It should. The cat 4 fields were overly full. The other categories have plenty of space. Time to push. The nature of the cat 3 fields will change. Change is good. Get ready to adapt.

I think Mike is spot on that the promoters will arrange the races to get maximum participation/registration. 3/4 Masters fields are certainly one way to do that. I had fully intended on doing the straight 45+ races next year but perhaps that will change. Cross will be fun no matter what.
Garrigan took Second at NBX today.  Adoptive Canadian Kissena one step closer to Worlds.  If he makes it I might just have to go...
Garrigan was a man on a mission. A mission for 100 UCI points in order for his Queen to select him for the Canadian World's team. And today he raced what was from my perspective (and I've seen this guy race a lot this year) his most controlled race. A couple of the favorites got caught out in a weird front of field split early on that left Garrigan and Milne chasing a three man move including Lindine, Timmerman and I think Nick Keough for like 2 laps. They eventually caught back and with a few laps to go, Milne launched an attack, gaining as much as 11 seconds on his pursuers, while Garrigan held second or third wheel, keeping his monster powerjamtastic in check. Milne was gone for good and I was screaming in my mind to Mike, "Let Lindine chase. You have to win the sprint for second." And he did just that, powering to the front on the last straight away leading to a technical stretch before the downhill pavement sprint.
Spacca legno Canadese strikes again :)
i agree with stokes. i think the nature of the field will change, and it will all be cool. i also agree with mike...promoters know what racers want and will figure out a way to give it to them. they know most people are not looking to drive 2 hours to race in the cold for the sole purpose of getting shelled....if only this were our biggest problem. i hope to be at eisenhower by 2:15 tomorrow to help with course recon....anyone in?
Third row call up for me today.. Amazing course and venue. And for us, it was snowing during our race. Kind of awesome but kind of cold. 122 or so starters and I finished in 15th place. I finished exactly 2 minutes behind the winner. Cross results looked at all the sandbaggers in my race and awarded me 393 points for my efforts. Just 8 more points than my win at Bubble cross. The first ten finishers in my field were awarded points that would have placed them in a battle for 24-34th places in the cat 3 race. Eric would have been proud today because I was carving corners and running into the back of people like nobody's business. "Why are you going so slow through this wide grassy turn...jeesh!?"
Chapeau Hotlist. Consistent like a right hook they just can't dodge :)