Kissena Forum Archive

Cyclocross!

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Eric,

After 20 years of master's racing, I have come to understand that there are all kinds of reasons why more "mature" racers call time on their seasons and I'm sure you have yours. However, as we talked about last weekend, I would urge you to reconsider early hibernation.

A quick look at the MAC results shows you in 8th place with only one race to go. Assuming everyone around you in standings shows up for Cross at the Kiln, you are likely to forfeit position if you don't go. Would be a shame to give up an entire season's work in that way. Most importantly, it will cost you front row spot for next years Nittany Cross openers (both days), on a course notorious for first lap pile ups, as 100 plus racers, jacked up to start their season well, charge off the line.

Thing about a series, which I'm sure isn't news to you, is that points at end of season count just as much as those in the beginning. Everyone is tired and it's hard to commit to another month of training since final race isn't until 12/14 but if you do it you won't have a winter of second guessing yourself and the warm glow of a front row start next year to keep you warm till spring.


mugwump said:

Third, better wrist position.  I find it easier to pull the bike up from the drops.  I also am more centered over the bike,which I find better for control.  


I can't/don't ride stairs, but the idea of being centered over the bike on a feature like stairs seems incorrect to me. At CX camp, when working on sand riding, Myerson talked about getting your weight back over the rear wheel and literally lifting the front wheel, helping it float over the sand. More weight, in that case, over the front wheel leads to, as Peter says, "crash-boom-bang."

I know it's not exactly the same, but it seems to me, that when riding a feature like stairs, where you have to lift the front wheel up and over, you don't want balanced weight front and rear.

Eric,

After 20 years of master's racing, I have come to understand that there are all kinds of reasons why more "mature" racers call time on their seasons and I'm sure you have yours. However, as we talked about last weekend, I would urge you to reconsider early hibernation.

A quick look at the MAC results shows you in 8th place with only one race to go. Assuming everyone around you in standings shows up for Cross at the Kiln, you are likely to forfeit position if you don't go. Would be a shame to give up an entire season's work in that way. Most importantly, it will cost you front row spot for next years Nittany Cross openers (both days), on a course notorious for first lap pile ups, as 100 plus racers, jacked up to start their season well, charge off the line.

Thing about a series, which I'm sure isn't news to you, is that points at end of season count just as much as those in the beginning. Everyone is tired and it's hard to commit to another month of training since final race isn't until 12/14 but if you do it you won't have a winter of second guessing yourself and the warm glow of a front row start next year to keep you warm till spring.

And you have to figure, that the likelyhood of "front row masters" showing up to the last race of the series is higher than us back-row-boys.

More importantly, there's so much awesome left in this cross season.

Of course, Ragot probably thinks/knows that starting on the second row at Nittany is no big deal, especially now that he's developed a reputation as the Master's Holeshot king. Guys like Aspholm, who like to ride into the race as it unfolds, have no problem giving Eric room at the gun because he knows it will just help thin the field of dudes like me, and make it that bit easier to race at the front without extra traffic.
Ragot has already done 12 races, two more than he's ever done in a single season, so it's unlikely, especially now that we're cajoling him, that he'll suit up again until he does 4 Branchbrook Park spring series races in a single day next March.

But still, so much awesome...


In short, too many miles driven, turkey legs consumed and elbows exchanged to give up a hard earned MAC Top 10 position w/o a fight. Give yourself a week off, mentally recharge and finish it off.

mugwump said:

Third, better wrist position.  I find it easier to pull the bike up from the drops.  I also am more centered over the bike,which I find better for control.  


I can't/don't ride stairs, but the idea of being centered over the bike on a feature like stairs seems incorrect to me. At CX camp, when working on sand riding, Myerson talked about getting your weight back over the rear wheel and literally lifting the front wheel, helping it float over the sand. More weight, in that case, over the front wheel leads to, as Peter says, "crash-boom-bang."

I know it's not exactly the same, but it seems to me, that when riding a feature like stairs, where you have to lift the front wheel up and over, you don't want balanced weight front and rear.
One problem with your theory.  At the pressure I was riding, I wanted to unweight the rear wheel when it rolls over the stair.  there isnt' much room to do so, but there is room.  And even though the Tufo's I'm riding are tubeless, I still don't want to ding the rim.  

I've been lifting my front wheel over curbs for years.  I've found that I feel more comfortable doing it on the drops the bigger the curb.  I feel I can "lift" better in the drops.

As for sand, I agree that moving weight back is better, particularly when first touching the sand.  I think to myself that I'm going to lift the front wheel over the first few feet and then I shift my weight back, trying to pretend that I'm doing a wheelie.
Cross at the kiln has a circle on the calendar
That's a circle WITHOUT a line through it, correct?
mugwump said:

mugwump said:

Third, better wrist position.  I find it easier to pull the bike up from the drops.  I also am more centered over the bike,which I find better for control.  


I can't/don't ride stairs, but the idea of being centered over the bike on a feature like stairs seems incorrect to me. At CX camp, when working on sand riding, Myerson talked about getting your weight back over the rear wheel and literally lifting the front wheel, helping it float over the sand. More weight, in that case, over the front wheel leads to, as Peter says, "crash-boom-bang."

I know it's not exactly the same, but it seems to me, that when riding a feature like stairs, where you have to lift the front wheel up and over, you don't want balanced weight front and rear.
One problem with your theory.  At the pressure I was riding, I wanted to unweight the rear wheel when it rolls over the stair.  there isnt' much room to do so, but there is room.  And even though the Tufo's I'm riding are tubeless, I still don't want to ding the rim.  

I've been lifting my front wheel over curbs for years.  I've found that I feel more comfortable doing it on the drops the bigger the curb.  I feel I can "lift" better in the drops.

As for sand, I agree that moving weight back is better, particularly when first touching the sand.  I think to myself that I'm going to lift the front wheel over the first few feet and then I shift my weight back, trying to pretend that I'm doing a wheelie.
I'm not expert but I've been studying this topic intently for the past 18 months, and can now "clean" the stairs in Prospect regularly, if not consistently.

Hopping is about using your body as a spring - so the advantage of "tops" is that it allows a greater range of travel for that spring.

If it gets warm enough soon enough I bet we could coax Canadian Mike out for a clinic on the topic :)
Here's the full replay of the world cup at Koksijde, Belgium:

(you'll need a location spoofer to view in the US. I use Hola Better Internet on Chrome)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFbYT7TUhVY

Something to notice is the lack of disc brakes on the field. Van Der Poel was the only top rider using them, Jeremy Durrin and Jon Page might have been the only other riders on disks. Absolutely everyone else was on cantilevers.image

First time in 2014 that Powers was on cantis:
image

Not gonna over read that it means anything, but would love to know the reasoning.

Enjoy.

Re Powers on Cantis...FASCINATING. He's been such a staunch supporter of discs...I think this warrants a twitter investigatory question or two.
I'm guessing that those who can choose picked canti's over discs because of weight here.  Lots of running and low speeds might mean they saw the gains of a lighter bike worth it.

I've also noticed that Nys switches between disc and canti' bikes in the same race.  He did so at Gavere, probably elsewhere.

Durrin, with Diamondback as the sponsor, might not have a choice.  Page, with Fuji as a sponsor, definitely doesn't.  they only make disc-equipped cross bikes.
Figured the Durrin and Page don't really have a choice, they are all disc.

BTW, both Jeremy and Gaby Durrin are sponsored by trek. I think they each got 2 black boone disc bikes and that was it.

http://www.team-awesome.cc/jeremy-durrin/
image
A couple of photos of Gaby I took at Providence:
imageimage
thanks. Forgot that Durrin wasn't sponsored by his road team, Optum.  


Hotlist No.11 2014

 

Once upon a time, there lived a Hotlist, and he was diligent and timely and on target week after week. And then the mountain started to crumble around him. Fortunately, the rocks didn’t quite kill Hotlist this time and he’s back to serve up this year’s special team championship edition. Before we get to the list lets review the rule. Hotlist covers who is hot, not, who is not. Hot is participating in the championship race.

 

Hotlist obviously understands that life gets in the way; and expects that some of you might have good excuses for not lining up in the battle to crown this year’s CX champion. But he also thinks that some of you have just found yourself at a Pity Party in the Dive Bar of Life, sucking on a baby-bottle filled with extra-mild, watered-down Weaksauce. Or something. Okay end rant.

 

On to the good. Let’s celebrate the KCC ELITE EIGHT who elected to race the championship event on beautiful Sunday morning.

 

1.   Todd McLoughlin. Starting the race as the prohibitive favorite, Todd didn’t disappoint. Riding like a combo of Nys and Aspholm, McLoughlin let the podium contenders flame out hot and fast before taking over the lead with 2 laps to go, focusing on the skill sections and easily taking the win.

2.   JP Partland. Despite having signed up for the “all-day” race passes again in 2014, Partland competed in just one race on Saturday, and was observed pre-riding the course long before anyone else from KCC on Sunday. One thing was clear. He wanted the win. But with just 3 races leading up to the big weekend this year, he was an underdog to take the title. Frankly, Hotlist is more impressed that he beat rock-solid crosser Patrick Grehan and rising star Nelson Martins than losing to McLoughlin.

3.   Patrick Grehan. Having recently notched one of his best results of the season at SCCX (4th in the Cat 4s), looking around at the riders at staging, he definitely was one to watch. And he quickly let the field know that he was there to RACE. The pace he set going through the prologue loop was blistering and absolutely shredded the field immediately. He continued to ride well enough to hold onto the bronze medal position.

4.   Nelson Martins. The young gun of KCC Cross has been on a tear of late, racking up result after result after result. A step or two off his best form resulting in a 6th place in a Cat 3 race in early November, he found himself battling Bertucco for much of the race before eventually leaving the other long-hair pondering the meaning of crater-like divots in the grass situated perfectly after the second barrier to create an extra-concussive, and extra fun, remount.

5.   Marc Bertucco. There was one thing that worked exceptionally well during Marc’s race. His headset. Newly installed by master mechanic Nelson Martins the very night before, Bertucco hopes that one day his broken down body will work a fraction as well as the silky smooth sealed cartridge bearings in his Cane Creek 40 series.

6.   Kayt Mathers. Introducing our new KCC women’s champion! Clearly after owning the Stylish Solutions Cat 4 Women’s Leader Jersey on the road this year, she was drunk with success and looking for more. Hotlist wonders if, and hopes she is, now inspired to race CX more in 2015!

7.   Joshua Caeser. The 2014 cross season has been quiet for Josh. After starting the season with a bang at the Cycle-Smart CX camp in mid-August, Josh dialed it back, focused on other things, and arrived to the KCC championships with perhaps the freshest legs! And for it he was rewarded with 7th place.

8.   Gwynna Smith. After spending much of the summer tearing around the woods on tires in the neighborhood of 2 INCHES wide, Gwynna took out the bike with the skinny tires, saddled up and crossed the line in eighth. Hotlist imagines sometimes how awesome it would be to have a season where Gwynna and Kayt, Erika, Julie and KCC’s other excellent women take on more cross racing.

 

So there you have it. The Great Eight! Congratulations to all who lined up for their chance at gold-medal glory. Heading into these final few weeks, Hotlist is morally obligated to remind you that the season did not end with Whirlybird, or HPCX or even Supercross. No indeed. The next three weekends are packed with high caliber cross racing for all.

 

(Pay no attention to the discussion forum calendar which is inappropriately absent of any cross racing listings past Supercross.)

 

For example, in just a few hours, Bertucco will be literally sliding on his ass and face as he attempts to go around an off-camber nirvana made even more impossible by inches of snow and ice in Sterling, MA. According to a tweet by the Bay State CX organizer, the fastest bike out there during Friday pre-ride was a fat bike with 4psi in the tires.

 

After this weekend is the Shimano/Verge Series final in nearby Warwick, RI (south of Providence) on Dec 6/7. NBX offers an exceptional course that combines the best of Gloucester, Providence and Northampton into one glorious course.


If you need to get your fix closer to home, Long Island Cyclocross at the Asylum Dec 6/7 might do the trick.


The following weekend is the MAC series finale that is a “must race” for anyone looking to pad their point total for next year’s Nittany call-ups. Plus, it’s kind of a hoot of a race that is frequently sloppy and cold.

 

You know, a lot of folks spent all September complaining about how this wasn’t real cross weather. Well, here ya go, folks. Cross weather is here, suit up!


Bay State Day 1. Master's 35+.

Rough day for me. Bay State in Sterling, MA is a challenging course when it's dry. For me, with snow-packed surfaces that was rutted and frozen and off camber hillsides that were frozen, the course was impossible. I started okay, but quickly got gapped and went backwards from there. Not happy with the extra pressure and effort that thick winter gloves demanded, I went with the lightweight gloves and that was a mistake. Frozen fingers and as I passed Josh, Alice, Sarah and Peter, I asked for "heavier gloves."

Next lap, Josh was there and we made the switch. At this point in the race I was so far out of it, that my level of urgency during this maneuver was, well, lets just say, I wasn't exactly in a rush.

The few guys that I had miraculously managed to stay in front of up until this point coasted by me, and then it was about me trying to hunt them down. I made an aggressive attempt to pass heading into some fluffier snow, got caught in a terrible rut, and tossed off the course. Remount, I was still full of enthusiastic "don't quit" and I promptly hit a deep divot that sent me ass-over-teakettle. Okay, game over. Ride the rest of this course clean.

I ended up doing a lot of running which was fine. I'm a pretty good runner and my clincher tires, just didn't have enough cush to allow me to ride the frozen off cambers. Hell, I could barely run them, using the slushy outer tracks to gain some traction. The good guys, most everyone else, they just flew by me.

That's right, I got lapped by a LOT of guys. I never get lapped. I've raced against Al Donahue and he's a million times better than me in every way, but he's never lapped me. Until today.

Frustrating, but not surprising. Tomorrow is supposed to be warmer, and I'm racing the Cat 3s which don't kick off until 12:30. If there's a little more give in the ground, maybe I can be less terrible than I was today.

Shout out to Josh and Alice for hooking me up with gloves mid-race. I can thank them for ensuring that I don't have frostbitten fingers right now!
Ouch. Kudos for making it out there though. I'm testing double-stuff oreos for performance-enhancing properties right now.

Reading some of the tweets from Bay State. Pro men and women were running between 17 and 21 lbs of pressure in their tires. I never had a chance with my clinchers, did I...

Bay State Day 2: Cat 3

So having mentally re-booted from a frustrating day on Saturday, I was looking forward to warmer temps and hopefully more traction as I elected to race the Cat 3s at 12:30. Leisurely wake-up time, stop for drive thru breakfast, still get to the race 3 hours early! Which meant I had the chance to get out there on the course 3 times before the start of my race.

I had resolved to do a couple of things. Namely, really get out there on the course and try to ride as much as I could. So what if I fell trying to do this or that. I needed to know of what I and my bike was capable. To that end, I didn't refill my latext inner-tubed tires. Yesterday's pressure at 25-ish was clearly too much. Latex tubes leak air like a sieve, and I figured I'd give today's random lower pressure a try. And sure enough, the combo of less frozen ground and less air in my tires, I was hooking up pretty good.

Much of the course would be, in the opening lap, little more than follow the leader. There was exactly one line wore out in the deep snow, and anyone stuck outside of that line would pay for it crash-tacularly. Unfortunately for me stuck in the back row of the call-ups. I was forced to deal with all those crashes. And there was nothing for me to do really. The opening few minutes were super slow. There was nowhere to go. Not until gaps started to form, and on some steeper run-ups was I able to pass folks.

And pass them I did. Feeling confident in most all of the off-camber ups and downs, my Limus muds were gripping pretty well. I was on my way.

And then this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKI46nsKT0Q

Early on you'll see me avoid many of the yahoos going down on a particularly steep and treacherous course feature. What you don't see is how just out of the frame, in order to avoid running over another rider who crashed as well, I took a sharper line crashed into a 4x4 sign post with my right forarm and shoulder. It hurt like a mother-fucker. But I kept racing. Wondering if I should quit and get to the hospital ASAP.

But it wasn't a compound fracture, I was able to grip the bars, and so I figured, well maybe a hairline fracture and so xrays can wait.

The next lap was frustrating. Guys who I had long since passed were now long gone. And really I found myself near the tail end of the Cat 3s, just racing trying not to get lapped. Well, that didn't work, the leaders, maybe the top 3 in the field indeed lapped me. Which in retrospect was a good thing. I got to ride with each of them a bit and it confirmed that given a better start, I have the ability to race with at least the middle of the packers.

Racing in softer snow/mud is actually pretty fun. I got used to my rear wheel slipping and sliding and found that my control was pretty good. In fact I noticed that even the ride-away winner, on one particular off camber muddy up and down leading into the barriers was NOT riding the right line. I felt smug about that for about 4 seconds until he rode away from me easily on the next couple of turns!

I can only imagine if I had mud tires glued up to some tubulars and ran even lower pressure.

In the end, I finished 41/59 including 11 DNFs and 16 guys who were lapped. Terrible crossresults points though, and I'm just about to lose some of my best scores. Looks like I'll be struggling again next year to get those points down. Tough ask though for anyone racing Master's 35+ and/or Cat 3s. I would have had to have finished 25th or so to get the same kinds of points that I earned for top 5s in the 4/5 races I did this year. Yeesh.

Epiloge: Went to a small ER nearby, was in and out in about 90 minutes after the xrays revealed no broken bones. Then, found a carwash with the some serious firepower and blasted the hell out of my bike and kit which are now pretty sparkling clean. Turns out the hooks they have for holding up car mats, hold up jerseys as well. So satisfying.

Random note: Interesting to see that Roger Aspholm made a last minute decision to come up to race once he knew there would be mud. MORE interesting that despite being a day of registration, he still got a second row call-up! Finished 6th or 7th on the day.
Glad your ok Marc. Interesting that they gave Roger the callup - our policy was more like unless your name is Sven or Marianne, no dice on call ups for day of.

Anyone know why this was the final year of BayStateCX \ Sterling ? 
Lost venue ? Promoter stepping down ? New race taking it's place ?


A friend of mine is Tom's brother in law. I'll ask him.
A friend of mine is Tom's brother in law. I'll ask him.
I actually talked to Tom on Sunday. He said that he was priced out by USA Cycling's new permit fees. Basically another $1000 got tagged onto his permit fees alone. And then the general expenses of running a UCI race got out of control with the kind of sponosorship he could get to support the race. He pointed to the big races, Vegas, Gloucester and Providence eating up all the sponsorship dollars.

He'll probably return to doing a local race or two.

I think dropping the UCI designation might be something we could consider for Supercross. Sounds like it adds a lot of expense and pain in the assness to everything. I guess that's up to Myles though.
A friend of mine is Tom's brother in law. I'll ask him.
I actually talked to Tom on Sunday. He said that he was priced out by USA Cycling's new permit fees. Basically another $1000 got tagged onto his permit fees alone. And then the general expenses of running a UCI race got out of control with the kind of sponosorship he could get to support the race. He pointed to the big races, Vegas, Gloucester and Providence eating up all the sponsorship dollars.

He'll probably return to doing a local race or two.

I think dropping the UCI designation might be something we could consider for Supercross. Sounds like it adds a lot of expense and pain in the assness to everything. I guess that's up to Myles though.
That's rich, considering the noise we've been hearing about how those races don't break even.

The UCI mode is badly broken in the this country, IMHO. Promoters have to pay to get pros to appear, have to have large enough purses and ultimately two pro races take about three paying amateur fields out of the mix.

The statistics for "participatory" events in this country are staggering; mud/color/spartan runs are KILLING it with 50-200 dollar entry fees, and American CX is doing yoga trying to be a bit of both, and failing.

I say failing because the amateur fields and courses suffer when guys like Tom can't put on races because the Pro side of things cripples the economic model.
Answering my own question - I was just reading some comments on facebook.

They have the permit from the venue for Baystate\Sterling to occur in 2015 .
But the cost of a UCI race is too much to bear so they are going non-UCI.

Going non-UCI also means leaving the Verge series since you can't have UCI and non UCI mixed in a series.

Paying Pros to come race makes no sense to me. I thought they would race a UCI race for the points itself, no? How much would attendance on a CX race, in terms of amateurs signing up, suffer because of the lack of Pros?
Paying Pros to come race makes no sense to me. I thought they would race a UCI race for the points itself, no? How much would attendance on a CX race, in terms of amateurs signing up, suffer because of the lack of Pros?
It wouldn't suffer it would go up. At least three more fields, and probably better time slots too.

"I paid my entry fee to watch the pros race," said nobody, ever.
So having Pros race cost a promoter two ways, in actual cost, as well as revenue lost. That's stupid.
So having Pros race cost a promoter two ways, in actual cost, as well as revenue lost. That's stupid.
Way more than that:

Special UCI fees
Special UCI rules around timing, results, water-in-the-pits, signage, course features, etc.
Special UCI marshals

Also, promoters need a certain critical mass of pros (domestic and foreign) to show up to keep their C1/C2 status; so if reg is low, the promoter may have to fly someone (or many) in.

Myerson interviewed on the subject of organizing/promoting a UCI race:

http://dirtwire.tv/2014/12/baystate-cx-adam-myerson-on-the-why-of-the-last-baystate-race/
http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/12/video/behind-barriers-tv-sven-nys-interview-part-two_354758