In other news I listened to a dreary podcast today about tram rosters but it had a nugget in there about how Vaughters had screwed Cervelo by letting Thor Hushvold walk while he was in the rainbow jersey and after his on fuego TDF season.

Sounded like Thor was their biggest marketing pillar and JV screwed them. Interesting angle on results vs sponsor love.

Jules said:

In other news I listened to a dreary podcast today about tram rosters but it had a nugget in there about how Vaughters had screwed Cervelo by letting Thor Hushvold walk while he was in the rainbow jersey and after his on fuego TDF season.

Sounded like Thor was their biggest marketing pillar and JV screwed them. Interesting angle on results vs sponsor love.

I read the memoir of the Cervelo story by Phil White's wife.  She was reluctant to criticize just about everyone, but she did note that the Garmin team didn't listen to the Cervelo people about putting sealant in tires for Paris-Roubaix, which she hinted was emblematic of their relationship.  (as you recall, Johan Vansummeren won Roubaix on a Cervelo that had a slow-leak rear flat).  

I though JV’s willingness to ask Cervelo for more money (400k euros more) to sign an ascendant Froome but never even told them he was showing Thor the door was enlightening.

Jules said:

I though JV’s willingness to ask Cervelo for more money (400k euros more) to sign an ascendant Froome but never even told them he was showing Thor the door was enlightening.

Classic Vaughters.  

Is that info from the Put Your Socks On podcast?  

I think it was the Cyclingnews podcast. Podcasts are as bad as books these days.

One 3k word essay should not be inflated to book length.

 Dive minutes of commentary & interviews should not be inflated to 30-60 minutes of shitty podcast banter with gawdaful techno bridge music

Uhm so what the what is up with Rohan Dennis already?

Jules said:

Uhm so what the what is up with Rohan Dennis already?

I haven't seen anything new.  Guess he isn't on the start list for the Vuelta.

Kudos to Cyclingtips for running this AFP article

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/08/doping-the-scourge-of-colombias-cycling-talent-production-line/

That Colombia is a far-away land, in a place where poverty seems potentially greater than in the US and Europe, and cycling potentially more popular, I see both the doping as likely, as well as a anti-Colombian bias from Euros possibly infecting coverage.

This thread sort of bums me out at times, with the great articles that everyone post, there is always skepticism on the amount of doping. In no way am I condoning the doping within athletics, but with every article posted there are comments oh blah blah doping. 

In every sport at the professional level there are drug cheats, from football to basketball, however, everyone has such a tainted past within cycling. It would be like a baseball fan constantly saying that when someone hit a home run, "oh such and such is doping, we have seen it before with Barry Bonds." 

I think cycling as whole needs to drop this ideology that everyone is dirty until proven clean. I know that this is more of an aside from the article. If we continue to keep covering doping at the level that is covered it only further shows how people are able to skirt around tests and be successful. With that being said I do think its important for reporters to cover when someone is doped up, but for them to just speculate and be like "ah so many Colombians are doping, and getting away with it." They don't hold one person or a group accountable.

The best showcase of reporting on doping in my views is Icarus. It shows you all the sides of doping, the pros and cons. I think that it was a fairly neutral take on it, it showed him doing worse despite doping (shows its not the only thing to ride a bike fast.) When it came to it being an anti-doping doc, it shows specific people and groups, not just generalized Russian dopers.

End of my rant. I just think that we need to move past the early 2000s mindset. With all that, I would love some of your takes on it.

I read the article this morning when I got to work (yes, my morning routine is check email, check cyclingtips, actually start to work). To me, the most interesting portion of the article is the general recognition that a young talent needs to be extracted from the system (and possibly country) because the fear they will fall into the mindset of "in order to win, I need to dope". That seems to point to the fact that those within Colombian cycling see, understand, and recognize that this mindset is prevalent and is a substantial problem that derails a lot of careers.

On doping in general, I think cycling is in a unique position when compared to other mainstream sports (especially in America). Between Lance, Operation Puerto, and the Festina Affair, large scale doping busts in cycling have been much more in the spotlight than I think in any other sport. This in turn makes it feel like there's an ever present need to distance ourselves from doping, to write speculative articles about doping and try to show the sport as clean, whereas in baseball, for example, there have been a lot of players who have gone positive, but the news coverage is minimal (if it exists at all) or those sports have been able to say something along the lines of "it was just that one bad apple". The natural by-product of this need to constantly try and reassure the public that the sport is clean is that they (I say "they" as in those who don't keep up or generally care about/follow cycling) are skeptical and flip the innocent until proven guilty construct on its head (and I don't know if I can necessarily blame them- if someone constantly was telling me they didn't do something, especially if I hadn't asked, I'd be speculative as to why they kept bringing it up).

All that being said, I don't think ignoring the problem is helpful either. I think cycling is on the right path- keep testing, keep cracking down, and keep improving testing techniques. However, in my opinion, time will prove to be the most beneficial factor in helping move past this mindset and with the image of the sport. As more of the older generation who doped or were doping adjacent leave the sport, and a younger generation who have dealt with/are dealing with the fall out of the older generation's actions with respect to sponsors, perception, etc., I think the sport and perception will naturally improve. 

Dopers suck.

1) Doping is a problem in professional sport.
2) the value of doping to athletes and sponsors is directly related to the revenue winning generates
3) cycling makes 1/100th the revenue (conservatively) of other major sports (track, mlb, mls, hockey, basketball)
4) Cycling has a testing regime far more rigorous than any other sport.

Do the math. 

@cpulvidente

First, I should apologize to all.  I should have put the article that started this in the "professional dopers" thread.  Where we have lots of insightful posts.

I think clean sport is like democracy.  It needs constant vigilance to survive.

I think the cycling federations are inconsistent in their interest in policing the sport.  I think the cycling press is insufficiently resourced in the most charitable analysis of their interest, and fatally compromised in the least.  I fear the anti-doping federations are always a few steps behind--they might have some solid suspicions, but not enough evidence to move on many.

So I fear it falls to the amateurs, those who care most about the sport, to be the watchdogs.  It's unfortunate, but looking at Jules' list, fans are stakeholders who probably are less blinded by money than the other parties.

Wump,

I'm not convinced fans care more about doping - you could argue the opposite as well.

As for the vigilance falling to the fans - well in a sport where they buy tickets perhaps...

Jules said:

Wump,

I'm not convinced fans care more about doping - you could argue the opposite as well.

As for the vigilance falling to the fans - well in a sport where they buy tickets perhaps...

It's not that they necessarily care more.  It appears many just want a fig leaf of credibility (oh do I hate the Armstrong defenders 'everyone was doing it' canard).  But they're in a position where they can care more, as they don't depend on pro sports for a paycheck.

I agree that there isn't necessarily a direct correlation between interest and action, though even with ticket-buying sports, the real money is in television contracts.  

True true the fans are bogolen to no one...

Speaking of not having to answer to anyone - fuck Wiggins and his "mental toughness."

First he's going to try and be an olympic rower, next back to the track with his own team, when that doesn't work he's shitting on people who celebrate him and he's going to be a social worker because despite living off the largesse of his bike career he doesn't want to talk about it.

Methinks the Wiggo doth protest too much.

Fascinating interview with Nathan Haas.

Of special note is his theory for the extremely high pace of early season racing this year - something I've read nothing about until now.

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/08/the-weekly-spin-philosophy-and-perspective-with-nathan-haas/

We'd have got away with it, if it wasn't for those meddling cyclists ...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/04/helicopter-rooftop-marijuana-plants-vuelta-spain-catalonia-race

that is all sort of amazing, and oh so very Spanish!

It's that time of year again! Functional/Strength training season is here! 

Good article on the topic: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/strength-training-for-road-cycling-success-a-beginners-guide/

Tim's 12-16 week  Functional strength / weight
Training plans are also great...

May join a gym this fall, any recommendations for BK?? Those who lift weights together, get stronger on the bike together.

@JohnOlsson now we're talking! Too bad I don't live in BK.  If you wanna learn about heavy weights and barbells, I have years of experience (and excess weight on my frame to show it).

There's a metric in the manufacturing world called Defects per Million Opportunities (DPMO). It is the ratio of the number of defects in a sample to the total number of defect opportunities multiplied by 1 million. Focusing on the death total (defects) ratio to total mileage of unprotected bike paths (opportunities) might shed some real light on the REAL problem locations.

As more unprotected bike paths are added to city streets, deaths will rise. We shouldn't accept a paint-job and demand PROTECTED bike paths. 

agree that we can use more protected bike paths, but the need here is so much wider: education, marketing, signage, enforcement of rules (there should be consequences for a driver that hits a pedestrian or cyclist), etc etc... essentially we need to shift culture from car centric to citizen friendly. 

Something my company published recently on the topic of 'People-Centric' mobility/infrastructure. Interesting bits about distrupting the last mile of transport, "The roads are quieter than they used to be as there are fewer personal cars and delivery vans. The local roads now have designated cycling lanes and wider sidewalks, creating a healthier and safer environment."

https://www.arcadis.com/en/global/news/latest-news/2019/06/people-centric-mobility-is-key-for-the-future-success-of-cities/

JohnOlsson said:

Something my company published recently on the topic of 'People-Centric' mobility/infrastructure. Interesting bits about distrupting the last mile of transport, "The roads are quieter than they used to be as there are fewer personal cars and delivery vans. The local roads now have designated cycling lanes and wider sidewalks, creating a healthier and safer environment."

https://www.arcadis.com/en/global/news/latest-news/2019/06/people-centric-mobility-is-key-for-the-future-success-of-cities/

When I was pushing for a redesign of Morningside avenue, I read extensively on the impact of various traffic designs.  Turns out that quieter streets mean at least two things.  More people living on the street open their windows, and people are more likely to invite guests over.  Somewhat related, streets with trees have more people spending time outside on them and also have less crime.  These are correlations, though believing there is some causality strikes me as reasonable.  

Yes.
https://cyclingtips.com/2019/09/breaking-news-embarrassingly-outdated-bike-works-just-fine-still-shreds/

Nathaniel Miller said:

Yes.
https://cyclingtips.com/2019/09/breaking-news-embarrassingly-outdated-bike-works-just-fine-still-shreds/

I managed to find myself on a group ride yesterday when someone was telling me you need $7,000 to get a good bike setup these days.  "Wheels are at least $2,000!" he says.  Dude likely couldn't see my eyeroll, but if had logged onto the Forum, and actually knew the Fred's email, I'd send him this.

His life story is fascinating 

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/09/16-stitches-and-a-life-of-pain-willie-smit-is-cyclings-toughest-rider/