Jul 17, 2017 at 01:24 PM
@TimCusick, we appreciate you. Thanks.
Kissena Coaching Program - Velocious Coaching
Jul 17, 2017 at 02:08 PM
Thanks! I have some good ideas to make it more "custom" next year and actually easier to manage but need to start at the beginning of the season.
Jul 17, 2017 at 02:17 PM
@TimCusick thanks for uploading my CX plan. much appreciated. Can you also give me the GMSR training plan as I am still undecided about racing.
I've been meaning to ask a more general question about hill work.
As a larger rider (I weigh about 190ish at the moment) I have struggled with hills since moving to Brooklyn last year. I used to live in NJ and worked hills religiously. I could get up them more quickly then.
I've made a point of working your intervals extra hard to compensate for a lack of hills, but it's not proving to be a one for one supplement.
Is there a benefit to having a dedicated hill day? I was considering going rogue one day a week and riding over the GWB to do hill repeats.
Perhaps there is another solution all together.
Thanks so much.
Jul 17, 2017 at 02:36 PM
Greg, we'll be happy to load the GMSR plan for you along with the CX plan! Before we do, though, I just wanted to let you know that most of the time you won't be able to tell which workout goes with which plan....if that's fine with you, we'll get it loaded. Just wanted to check first!
Jul 17, 2017 at 02:40 PM
^ thanks @TimCusick for loading the GMSR plan. Yep, looks like some intense work which explains some of the back to back rest days, happy that I've been building my endurance up over the past few weeks since most of May and early June were awash. Looking forward to diving into it.
Jul 17, 2017 at 02:41 PM
Got it. In that case, I will hold off until I decide on GMSR.debimartin said:Greg, we'll be happy to load the GMSR plan for you along with the CX plan! Before we do, though, I just wanted to let you know that most of the time you won't be able to tell which workout goes with which plan....if that's fine with you, we'll get it loaded. Just wanted to check first!
Thanks for the head's up.
Jul 17, 2017 at 02:54 PM
Sure thing, Greg....just let us know!
Jul 17, 2017 at 03:06 PM
Greg,
A good question. In general, a "watt is a watt" so climbing is all about ability to put out such watts (/weight) but when you start to look more closely, that reality can change. Two key areas of change are position and kinetic energy. Both of those effect the way you use muscle/motor unit recruitment by effecting the way you pedal so what might be holding you back (not showing results for pushing even harder) can be a change in the way you pedal / recruit muscle on the flats is just not replicate(able) and you need to actually hit the hills. I know some people try to do on trainer with front raised and i have seen that work at times trainers can make the kinetic energy factor even worse....sorry no great help. Best advice, find some hill days
A good question. In general, a "watt is a watt" so climbing is all about ability to put out such watts (/weight) but when you start to look more closely, that reality can change. Two key areas of change are position and kinetic energy. Both of those effect the way you use muscle/motor unit recruitment by effecting the way you pedal so what might be holding you back (not showing results for pushing even harder) can be a change in the way you pedal / recruit muscle on the flats is just not replicate(able) and you need to actually hit the hills. I know some people try to do on trainer with front raised and i have seen that work at times trainers can make the kinetic energy factor even worse....sorry no great help. Best advice, find some hill days
Jul 17, 2017 at 04:17 PM
Thanks @TimCusick
Jul 17, 2017 at 05:43 PM
Hi @TimCusick - I would like the GMSR plan
Jul 17, 2017 at 06:12 PM
Ben, I've just loaded the GMSR plan into your account!
Jul 17, 2017 at 06:24 PM
Thanks Debi!
Jul 19, 2017 at 12:06 PM
Greg, here is an article I just wrote on this topic (sort of): https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/how-to-use-individualized-analytics-to-become-a-better-climber/
Jul 19, 2017 at 03:34 PM
@TimCusick I've bee doing more MTN biking recently and I feel like the TSS I get under-values the full-body workload on the ride. That makes sense because "power is power" at the pedals. Is there an adjustment I should be making to my MTN bike TSS to more accurately reflect the workload?
Jul 19, 2017 at 03:59 PM
When I train or race on the cyclocross bike, I don't have a power meter, but use my heart rate monitor. Took me a moment to set my HR threshold so that the hrTSS felt similar to TSS.
Even went to the trouble of uploading a tempo ride twice -- one with Power, one with HR -- and adjust the HR threshold in Training Peaks until they were super close.
Even went to the trouble of uploading a tempo ride twice -- one with Power, one with HR -- and adjust the HR threshold in Training Peaks until they were super close.
Jul 19, 2017 at 07:12 PM
@TimCusick thank you. v interesting read. glad I asked the question.
Jul 19, 2017 at 11:44 PM
I've polled some of my other coach/mtn bike friends and they seem to agree it needs some kind of upward adjustment but nobody is sure how much, or if it matters.Jules said:@TimCusick I've bee doing more MTN biking recently and I feel like the TSS I get under-values the full-body workload on the ride. That makes sense because "power is power" at the pedals. Is there an adjustment I should be making to my MTN bike TSS to more accurately reflect the workload?
Jul 20, 2017 at 11:01 AM
Stress is an external measurement and strain is an internal one. Watts is a "stress" so you put your body under 300 watts of stress as an example. Strain is what you body goes under when stress is applied. Training STRESS Score (TSS) is a measurement of external stress derived from watts (NP) to quantify such stress. All "stress" is (should be) equal (ie "a watt is a watt") but the result strain is multifaceted and can be effected by numerous factors. The two main factors (short version) to consider are:
1. TSS is a "metabolic" score does not do necessarily take into account specific muscular demands ( or change in specific muscular demands). This is why "quadrant analysis (QA)" was created allowing for TSS to "score" the metabolic stress and QA to give insights into muscular demand. This means as you engage in cycling activities (well, all endurance i guess) TSS is accurate in measuring the STRESS of the event but the resulting strain can create a disconnect with the "feelings".
2. Training Specificity / Efficiency - Assuming all STRESS is equal one of the biggest factors of STRAIN is the principle of specificity and the effects on efficiency. If you MTB 100% of the time all year long, a 200 TSS ride is still 200 TSS but the strain would be less; why? You are better adapted to the specific demands of mountain biking.
So you have to ask yourself WHY you want to adjust TSS when you MTB? Are you trying to demonstrate a higher TSS score effects on your Performance Manager Chart / Chronic Training Load? If so, why? Most times I get asked this question, people are focused on just that but when I dig deeper they are also concerned about the resulting fatigue (since the strain is "higher").
So, now that you have read this, tell me WHY you want to adjust? What is the end goal? Once I better understand that, will give some ideas.
1. TSS is a "metabolic" score does not do necessarily take into account specific muscular demands ( or change in specific muscular demands). This is why "quadrant analysis (QA)" was created allowing for TSS to "score" the metabolic stress and QA to give insights into muscular demand. This means as you engage in cycling activities (well, all endurance i guess) TSS is accurate in measuring the STRESS of the event but the resulting strain can create a disconnect with the "feelings".
2. Training Specificity / Efficiency - Assuming all STRESS is equal one of the biggest factors of STRAIN is the principle of specificity and the effects on efficiency. If you MTB 100% of the time all year long, a 200 TSS ride is still 200 TSS but the strain would be less; why? You are better adapted to the specific demands of mountain biking.
So you have to ask yourself WHY you want to adjust TSS when you MTB? Are you trying to demonstrate a higher TSS score effects on your Performance Manager Chart / Chronic Training Load? If so, why? Most times I get asked this question, people are focused on just that but when I dig deeper they are also concerned about the resulting fatigue (since the strain is "higher").
So, now that you have read this, tell me WHY you want to adjust? What is the end goal? Once I better understand that, will give some ideas.
Jul 20, 2017 at 04:56 PM
Thanks Tim that makes sense. I understand that if it was 100% MTN then there is no conversion necessary, so same-same.
My goal is to keep track of my weekly/monthly TSS so that I don't
a) dig myself in a hole or
b) beat myself up for being fatigued when my TSS or TSB "looks" low
Ultimately this season I'm focussed on road/gravel and I am just trying to be honest with myself. A 3 hour MTN bike ride doesn't provide as large a TSS as a 3 hour road ride but boy do I feel it afterwards.
My goal is to keep track of my weekly/monthly TSS so that I don't
a) dig myself in a hole or
b) beat myself up for being fatigued when my TSS or TSB "looks" low
Ultimately this season I'm focussed on road/gravel and I am just trying to be honest with myself. A 3 hour MTN bike ride doesn't provide as large a TSS as a 3 hour road ride but boy do I feel it afterwards.
Jul 20, 2017 at 05:39 PM
So you mean you recover slower because the stress you measure creates more strain? That is what ATL constant is for. In TP and WKO4 it set to a default of 7 days. In scenarios like your, I lengthen the ATL constant to 10-12 days. This means the acute training activities have a "longer 1/2 life" and show greater fatigue over time. This allows me to accurate measure the "Stress" across different cycle types equally but adjust for the additional fatigue these scenarios can bring about.
Now you can sort of do the same thing by having a consistent formula for TSS adjust (think..10 pts an hour or something like that) but will that be true for low technical course and gravel vs. high technical singletrack with lots of roots and rocks? That is the challenge of this method.
The key is picking one and sticking with it.
Jul 21, 2017 at 02:42 AM
Thanks @Tim. I think a TSS adjust is the way to go because I don't think (?) I can change ATL for a single ride. My scenario is an unexpected number of MTN bike rides per week (0-3).TimCusick said:So you mean you recover slower because the stress you measure creates more strain? That is what ATL constant is for. In TP and WKO4 it set to a default of 7 days. In scenarios like your, I lengthen the ATL constant to 10-12 days. This means the acute training activities have a "longer 1/2 life" and show greater fatigue over time. This allows me to accurate measure the "Stress" across different cycle types equally but adjust for the additional fatigue these scenarios can bring about.
Now you can sort of do the same thing by having a consistent formula for TSS adjust (think..10 pts an hour or something like that) but will that be true for low technical course and gravel vs. high technical singletrack with lots of roots and rocks? That is the challenge of this method.
The key is picking one and sticking with it.
Aug 10, 2017 at 03:41 PM
@TimCusick, our (or at least mine) GMSR plans are coming to an end this Sunday. Will there be new plans uploaded soon?
Aug 10, 2017 at 11:27 PM
We will post all Sunday night, Monday is a rest day….
Timothy Cusick
TrainingPeaks WKO4 Product Leader
tim@wko4.com
Timothy Cusick
TrainingPeaks WKO4 Product Leader
tim@wko4.com
Aug 13, 2017 at 12:35 PM
Good morning team!
I just posted all plans for next cycle, please check and make sure I got it right. For the road racing group, this is the last "hard" cycle. As always I suggest taking some time off in the fall if you are planning on racing a full season in 2018. Typically I suggest 2-4 weeks off bike then back into transitional mode. Starting on Oct 1 I will supply a special 4 week "transition" plan for those on the road schedule. This plan features cross training, functional strength and endurance training. For the CX crowd, always hard to write plans once in race season as the schedule vary so much. Trying to think of a more dynamic way of doing it, will update next week on ideas.
I just posted all plans for next cycle, please check and make sure I got it right. For the road racing group, this is the last "hard" cycle. As always I suggest taking some time off in the fall if you are planning on racing a full season in 2018. Typically I suggest 2-4 weeks off bike then back into transitional mode. Starting on Oct 1 I will supply a special 4 week "transition" plan for those on the road schedule. This plan features cross training, functional strength and endurance training. For the CX crowd, always hard to write plans once in race season as the schedule vary so much. Trying to think of a more dynamic way of doing it, will update next week on ideas.
Aug 27, 2017 at 05:36 PM
Hey @TimCusick, I missed the past three workouts (Wednesday, Thursday and Friday) because of inflammation around my knee. The workouts looked crucial. I feel well enough to try to train tomorrow. Should I pick up where I left off before knee pain kept me off the bike, thereby pushing the whole cycle back by one week (fine by me)? Or should I just jump right back into the plan as it is written?
Aug 28, 2017 at 11:10 AM
Pushing back is best if that does not mess up your season....
Sep 05, 2017 at 06:22 PM
Hi Tim, just wrapped up GMSR. Training plan really helped! Had a great race.
Question, I have another RR this Sunday in Texas (https://www.usacycling.org/events/getflyer.php?permit=2017-2527). It's a really punchy course. I'm taking today and tomorrow off, but what would you suggest for Thursday, Friday and Saturday? Perhaps should I repeat the last week workload from GMSR (VO2 Max intervals and a Pre-race short)?
Question, I have another RR this Sunday in Texas (https://www.usacycling.org/events/getflyer.php?permit=2017-2527). It's a really punchy course. I'm taking today and tomorrow off, but what would you suggest for Thursday, Friday and Saturday? Perhaps should I repeat the last week workload from GMSR (VO2 Max intervals and a Pre-race short)?
Sep 10, 2017 at 08:45 PM
Scott - sorry for late reply. The last weeks storms hit us hard and been without power till yesterday morning, still catching up.
Sep 10, 2017 at 08:52 PM
TEAM:
It is that time of year again. This is the hardest time to write training plans for a team. For CX, that is rolling and those racers have a plan. For those that have raced all summer and are ready for some off time, the early fall brings a great time for "unstructured riding" or resting, both of which help refresh the mind and the body.
So the challenge for me is how/what to post? I would like to handle it this way. Make the rest of Sept "unstructured" training and just let people ride on their own. My recommendation is to take it easy and enjoy things. For October, post a full "plan" with some fall endurance building (just such a great time to ride), new Functional Strength and Cross Training Programs, then begin official 2018 season in Nov.
For those doing some fall events, be glad to give some advice on how to put some structure in the "unstructured" riding if you have an event.
What are your thoughts?
PS: Tomorrow is a rest day either way
It is that time of year again. This is the hardest time to write training plans for a team. For CX, that is rolling and those racers have a plan. For those that have raced all summer and are ready for some off time, the early fall brings a great time for "unstructured riding" or resting, both of which help refresh the mind and the body.
So the challenge for me is how/what to post? I would like to handle it this way. Make the rest of Sept "unstructured" training and just let people ride on their own. My recommendation is to take it easy and enjoy things. For October, post a full "plan" with some fall endurance building (just such a great time to ride), new Functional Strength and Cross Training Programs, then begin official 2018 season in Nov.
For those doing some fall events, be glad to give some advice on how to put some structure in the "unstructured" riding if you have an event.
What are your thoughts?
PS: Tomorrow is a rest day either way
Sep 12, 2017 at 12:18 PM
Team - based off the few comments I received, going to leave the schedule blank til Oct 2nd, then pick up with 2018 Prep and Transition. If anyone wants some workouts or has a goal that they need some workouts for, message me....