Kissena Forum Archive

Battenkill

1291 comments · 561 views
I know it's beating a dead horse, but another look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtK7txwO-Lk#t=16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5VO9FprAXk

Thoughts? I'm looking at you @eragot, @mugwump... you too Bertucco.
^ Dirty sprint. No need to swerve that far off his line, and his bullshit "don't overlap wheels" logic means the same thing in a sprint as "don't pass." Lame. I feel like Myerson is always bitching about something.
I don't believe there is a problem as there is no way Myerson knew eneas was there. Not a foul.

While he certainly does swerve quite a bit, anyone who's ever really sprinted knows that putting a little body english into your sprint start is a great way to get up to speed. And for me the question is does his move impede the actions of the rider behind him?

And since he basically went from just to the right of the center line to just left of the center line (say about 3 bike widths of movement), Eneas forward progress was not limited in the same way as if he put him into the barriers. He still had plenty of room to come around Myerson.

That said, I'm 99% sure there is a technical rule about sprinting and changing your line. I think Myerson loses on that count.
@Ragot What's the logic on his move then? He's not quite on the front guys wheel, if he's going for the win his movement makes no sense. Then you'd have to conclude he just deviated from his line to hold second. This guy races bikes for a living for Chrisakes, he knows when someone is on his wheel and in this case he has a huge shadow to show him exactly where the dude is coming from. I think it's the trackie in you giving him a hall pass.
After his fake to the right, I'd put Myerson's initial swerve to the left at around 6 or 7 feet, then an awkwardly leaning pause (I'm assuming because 3rd wheel yelped or some such), then another 3 feet after he re-commits to the sprint. It does seem like he didn't know at the first instant that his wheel was being overlapped. Which probably is irrelevant. But I would be fucking pissed if a guy faked one way, I took the other, then he suddenly veered 6 feet off his line back into me.
Might be worth adding that Eneas seemed very very new to this level of racing. He was Very very strong but I know the entire group was getting hot and botherd via his new rider type stuff.
Might be worth adding that Eneas seemed very very new to this level of racing. He was Very very strong but I know the entire group was getting hot and botherd via his new rider type stuff.
Sadly, Eneas has been racing at the Pro/Elite level for years at least as far back as 2004. Including on the infamous UPMC-America's Cycling team (Joe "I'm a doper and drug dealer" Papp's team for many years), some time with Kissena back when it was "run" by Greg Avon and they had a "pro" division. He's done many of the big races across this country in the Pro 1/2 category, including Arizona's Valley of the Sun stage race (for years all the pro teams in this country showed up for that SR), Fitchburg (again, in it's day, all the big pros, including Chris Horner and Jonathan Vaughters raced at this once great SR), Chris Thater (a national calendar crit forever) and all of the usual local/regional races.

I guess this just goes to show that just because you have experience, doesn't mean you know how to race a bike like a pro.

https://www.usacycling.org/results/?compid=146736
Well guys, I know that all this discussion about professional cyclists and people with talent is just your unique way of asking how the hotly-contested 3-person-3-field sprint for 7th place in the Men's 4C really went down.  Skip to 3:25 in this video and wonder no more:

http://youtu.be/hO1OXcNJA28?t=3m26s

Please note that I consider the inside line I took in this video to be the finest tactical move I've ever made on a bicycle.  It's all downhill from here.  Even the rhythm of the sprint is off.

Okay you can go back to things that matter.
^I love it.
Did the guy from :45 to 1:00 chase down his own teammate?
Seriously Brendan that was sweet.  Watching it I was like "too far!  too far!" but you held it.  I thought for sure they'd take turns attacking you.  They really screwed the pooch.
Might be worth adding that Eneas seemed very very new to this level of racing. He was Very very strong but I know the entire group was getting hot and botherd via his new rider type stuff.
My guess is that most everyone knew who Eneas was.  His m.o. is hard and harder; he likes breaking legs.  Great for brutal courses, not so great anywhere else.  

I'm still not going to get drawn into making a decision on the finish.  After all, we don't have the aerial view.  And we don't know whether or not Adam knew where other guys were.  We don't know where the wind was.

That written, Adam did go pretty hard to the left when he didn't need to. It might have even cost him second place.  I don't see how the swerve benefitted him at all as he thus wasn't able to slingshot on the guy in front of him.  Maybe he lost control of his bike for a moment.  Maybe he thought someone was about to jump on his left and he wanted to close that door and make sure no one overtook him.

Eneas might have been about to pass him; it's impossible to say from this angle.  But even if that were the case, Adam didn't need to go that hard to the left to keep him from passing, just a bike width would have accomplished that.  And with a bike width, it would have been much harder to protest, if it were protest-worthy at all.

To me, Adam almost looks as if he's slightly to the right of the CCB rider before he moves left.  I'd put it as at least four bike widths, perhaps more.

Looking at how close Eneas was to Adam at the finish, even after swerving and putting his hand up, he might well have been able to jump adam if not for adam's move.  And if he hadn't put his hand up,  he might have been able to beat him even with the move.

If this had been a two-up sprint and Adam had swerved like that (they were within the last 200m), he almost certainly would have been relegated, even in "real" pro racing.  If this had been a full-on field sprint in a major race, he probably wouldn't have done it, either.  

On the other hand, perhaps Eneas was nervous and wasn't that close to Adam and overreacted.  Can't tell from this angle.  

No matter what, whining via social media is most un-pro, especially for someone who has worked as a race official, protested in the past, and is bitter about how some were able to flout the rules.
Yeah. Myerson went nuts at the keyboard today. I don't care enough about what happened to watch the videos and form an opinion. But even if he's right, that kind of manic posting and tweeting about it is not a good look for a 40 something professional.
mugwump said:

No matter what, whining via social media is most un-pro, especially for someone who has worked as a race official, protested in the past, and is bitter about how some were able to flout the rules.
Since when does voicing a complaint make one "un-pro" whatever the hell that means?!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn-kxUEySy0
Some more photos:

Adam and Joaquin laying it down:
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#h24741ce9
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#h36ccc026

KCC 4 field in the mud:
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#h285eca11
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#h369e35cd
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#h2b3d1e8a
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#h3b58eb86

KCC 4 field on the road:
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#he15b9c5
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#hcb91f76
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#h38ca145
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#h5a127a7

KCC 5s in the mud:
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#h12a885a
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#h1eb723cd
http://www.basetwelvephoto.com/p521579441/hCB91F76#ha9d43d1

And more:
http://www.ksjphoto.com/Sports/Cycling/Tour-of-the-Battenkill-2014/
Four words: Orange Fluo Spray Paint
I am so rocking a 39/28 in those pictures up Juniper Swamp.
I would have never ever,,EVER guessed that Eneas has been racing that long! I figured him for a triathlete who trained a tonne and just got into road racing.. Goes to show how new I am I suppose!
Won't go into a deep & drawn out race report. But my Battenkill this year turned into the hardest day on the bike I ever had. Made 2013 Battenkill look like a local park race. Finished 37th place at the end: stayed at the front from the start, but got dropped on second big climb where all had to run up the muddy hill & I quickly learned that Speedplays and mud is a bad mixture. Took me minutes to finally get my cleats working while trying to climb and by then it was all chasing. Many times throughout the race I questioned my general sanity and need for putting myself through such things (masochism must be genetic).

Regardless, the trip was filled with a lot of great moments with teammates, friends and family. Even got to explore the local area a bit Sunday. Overall amazing experience.
Adam, you have the sleepiest suffer face I've ever seen.  Do you even feel pain?
Adam, you have the sleepiest suffer face I've ever seen.  Do you even feel pain?
Ask him how he feels about an orange helmet and you'll see see the face.
I would have never ever,,EVER guessed that Eneas has been racing that long! I figured him for a triathlete who trained a tonne and just got into road racing.. Goes to show how new I am I suppose!
he does run a coaching/training business (office/shop/training space)  that I think caters to triathletes.  He does them some.  in some respects, it might be a better fit, because he doesn't have to think about tactics so much.  
Jeez. Adding this to the list of pointless Kissena crap that people are overanalyzing. Goes with Aaron's gear ratios for Grant's Tomb, Clifford's installation of his new cassette, the taste of Osmo pre-load and as of last week the ridiculous discussion on feed zones.

In summary, Myerson sprinted like a shithead, got pinged by the umpire, now serves his sentence. This Eneas guy isn't even part of this protracted and meaningless over-analysis. But yes, he probably smoked a marijuana cigarette once as a teenager. So yes, he's a shithead too. And as for him doing tris; what a total dick. All important factors.

In other cycling news, Canc nailed Flanders. Love that guy. Bear Mountain hasn't been cancelled yet- odds on that changing? What's up with Team Sky: 2014 implosion? The NY state RR championships are on Dieter's Hunter Mountain course this year- I think we should go for gold in the 3s, we can win.

xoxo
Adam I thought I recognized that kid in front of you.  Jesse Stauffer same guy...

image 
Adam said:
Jeez... Adding this to the list of pointless Kissena crap that people are overanalyzing. In other cycling news, Canc nailed Flanders. Love that guy. Bear Mountain hasn't been cancelled yet- odds on that changing? What's up with Team Sky: 2014 implosion? The NY state RR championships are on Dieter's Hunter Mountain course this year- I think we should go for gold in the 3s, we can win. xoxo
Adam, 
I'll remember to consult you before I post again.  

Oops.
Don't worry JP. You aren't the first person to forget to consult me, the god of everything and the world-wide-nets, before posting on a forum. Just try not to do it again, KK?

Jules, dawg. We've been BFFs for a few years now, you can always indulge in a cheeky liberty or two with me. If you want to post a completely unrelated podium pic of you from a completely unrelated event, no biggie. No need to try tenuously link Mr Stauffer. Who is Mr Stauffer?
Mr. Stauffer = Ducky?
Apparently Saturday wasn't enough, so he went on to "win" the fondo the next day...
Took a while to find the picture that jogged my memory...