Mar 15, 2012 at 10:51 PM
anyone going up on friday i need to be there before 5 please let me know 917-586-0170
Battenkill
Mar 16, 2012 at 09:21 AM
I'm going to defer to JP with regards to specific course tactics on this race, it's been far too long since I've done this race (the last time I did it, it was only like $30 to enter and the Pro 1/2 field was like me and Tony Martin and like 6 other BMC dudes).
That said, I think you guys are on the right track generally speaking. That is to say that you don't want to leave your Cat 4 superteam waiting in the wings too long, because for as strong as you are there are going to be 10-20 other guys with similar super powers. But you don't also don't want to use up all your guys making the race hard so a handful of guys who are not your teammates have an easy time taking advantage of your work without some blue and orange attached to their arses.
In terms of race prep...I also think that only doing park races on the weekends is probably not the best strategy mentally or physically to have you ready to rock at Battenkill. You might consider doing a long Sunday ride or two as a group instead of racing. For example, I would recommend driving/train-taking to get to the Jersey side of the GWB and doing the Apple Orchard ride, take the right turn up Little Tor (instead of the usual straight ahead) for a good hard 7 or so minutes of steep, unrelenting climbing (it's too easy to take it easy with the traditional approach to the Orchard) and continue you North with the "Mattie Northern Loop Extension." There are some nice "heavy rollers" but some more bitching steep stuff before you turn back south on 9W.
Alternatively, it appears that if you are willing to start your travel season early, there are a few road races in between now and then that might be good race-prep.
https://www.bikereg.com/Net/14180
This PA race, is sure to have the usual slow, heavy and coarse rolling roads that will wear on the legs
https://www.bikereg.com/Net/15652
This NJ race will be easier on the legs (maybe), but harder on the team strategy. Easy to go to the front and hammer, but harder to get an actual result just on pure megawatt extrusions of effort.
https://www.bikereg.com/Net/15470
This one is a long drive, but from the description it sounds like you've got a mini-Battenkill. I can guarantee you that the upstate New Yorkers with an eye at Battenkill will be at this one.
That said, I think you guys are on the right track generally speaking. That is to say that you don't want to leave your Cat 4 superteam waiting in the wings too long, because for as strong as you are there are going to be 10-20 other guys with similar super powers. But you don't also don't want to use up all your guys making the race hard so a handful of guys who are not your teammates have an easy time taking advantage of your work without some blue and orange attached to their arses.
In terms of race prep...I also think that only doing park races on the weekends is probably not the best strategy mentally or physically to have you ready to rock at Battenkill. You might consider doing a long Sunday ride or two as a group instead of racing. For example, I would recommend driving/train-taking to get to the Jersey side of the GWB and doing the Apple Orchard ride, take the right turn up Little Tor (instead of the usual straight ahead) for a good hard 7 or so minutes of steep, unrelenting climbing (it's too easy to take it easy with the traditional approach to the Orchard) and continue you North with the "Mattie Northern Loop Extension." There are some nice "heavy rollers" but some more bitching steep stuff before you turn back south on 9W.
Alternatively, it appears that if you are willing to start your travel season early, there are a few road races in between now and then that might be good race-prep.
https://www.bikereg.com/Net/14180
This PA race, is sure to have the usual slow, heavy and coarse rolling roads that will wear on the legs
https://www.bikereg.com/Net/15652
This NJ race will be easier on the legs (maybe), but harder on the team strategy. Easy to go to the front and hammer, but harder to get an actual result just on pure megawatt extrusions of effort.
https://www.bikereg.com/Net/15470
This one is a long drive, but from the description it sounds like you've got a mini-Battenkill. I can guarantee you that the upstate New Yorkers with an eye at Battenkill will be at this one.
Mar 16, 2012 at 01:12 PM
I've been seriously considering a scouting trip the weekend of the 31/1st
Two solid days of riding the actual race course hard; enough time to recover properly afterward.
It's a commitment for sure (not sure if I can still swing the hall-pass) but being able to ride & re-ride key parts of the course would be huge.
Two solid days of riding the actual race course hard; enough time to recover properly afterward.
It's a commitment for sure (not sure if I can still swing the hall-pass) but being able to ride & re-ride key parts of the course would be huge.
Mar 16, 2012 at 01:38 PM
As much as I'd love to do a scouting trip, i'm not sure I can swing it. I would definitely be up for a more local training ride that weekend. If we wanted to drive across the GWB I could accommodate a couple of people and bikes.
Mar 16, 2012 at 01:38 PM
Note that the finish is much less technical/sketchy than last year:
http://www.tourofthebattenkill.com/storage/pdfs/Course map2012 - with2011.pdf
http://www.tourofthebattenkill.com/storage/pdfs/Course map2012 - with2011.pdf
Mar 16, 2012 at 04:45 PM
http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/fullscreen/61799502/
Any local climbs similar to that last long climb at mile 45? Indicates 5% max grades. Is this correct?
Also, am trying to nut out accommodation/travel (girlfriend overseas).
Any local climbs similar to that last long climb at mile 45? Indicates 5% max grades. Is this correct?
Also, am trying to nut out accommodation/travel (girlfriend overseas).
Mar 16, 2012 at 05:07 PM
@ John: here is last year's race file: http://tpks.ws/BhzZYUIv
37 km mark: right around the I see I did about 7 minutes at 300; pretty sure that was the main selection
67 km: the "winning move" climb is a bear - Including my "false start" because the flagmen sent me in the wrong direction it took about 25 minutes at normP of 292
90 km mark: the final climb which took me 7.5 minutes at a measly 250 watts (you can see how tired I was) then there is a small dip then another kicker before the final run in - both hills combined are around 10 minutes
The final run in is not quite 10 km
I was probably about 155 at the time; I'm a little lighter & stronger now
37 km mark: right around the I see I did about 7 minutes at 300; pretty sure that was the main selection
67 km: the "winning move" climb is a bear - Including my "false start" because the flagmen sent me in the wrong direction it took about 25 minutes at normP of 292
90 km mark: the final climb which took me 7.5 minutes at a measly 250 watts (you can see how tired I was) then there is a small dip then another kicker before the final run in - both hills combined are around 10 minutes
The final run in is not quite 10 km
I was probably about 155 at the time; I'm a little lighter & stronger now
Mar 16, 2012 at 08:37 PM
OK, this is looking like the "bad" Computrainer course. The one with all the saw teeth that Ryan attacks up... thinking I should offer myself as more of a supportive roll. That first hour looks like I could hurt some legs.
Mar 16, 2012 at 10:30 PM
For those looking to get dirty on the road bike like JP suggested, the rockland lake to haverstraw stretch may be a bit much on a road bike with 23s. I regularly do it on my cross bike, but it's a bit rocky/rooty.
Mar 16, 2012 at 11:44 PM
I've left my winter 25's on; rode conti 23's last year without issue though
Mar 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM
25z 4 LIFE
Mar 21, 2012 at 10:07 AM
(reposting)
Wheels at B'kill
This has been discussed many times by Kissena over the years. Take a search through the archives.
I believe, it's not just wheels, but tires. Over the years, I've ridden several different wheelsets. Light aluminum rims tubed and tubeless as well as carbon fiber rims with 21 and 23mm tires. First time American Classic 420 rims with 23mm clinchers. No problem. then Mavic Cosmic Carbones with 21mm tubulars. No problem. Then Zipp 404 tubulars (dimpled, semi-toriodal) with 21mm tires. Cracked the rear rim. Then Fulcrum Zero clinchers with tubeless tires. No problem. Then Zipp 404 Tubulars (dimpled, semi-toroidal in front and toroidal in rear) with 23mm tires. no problem.
I don't think the roads are that bad, and most of the dirt and gravel sections are fairly easy, though descending at over 40mph in a pack on dirt roads is not the most confidence-inspiring things.
I think 23mm tires on carbon-fiber tubulars works fine. For people who fear getting thrashed by the roads, try a 25mm racing clincher or tubular as William is wont to do.
Riding to Haverstraw on dirt--Mattie thanks for the tip. It's been a long time since I've done it, though I used to ride on 20mm tires when I was last there.
Wheels at B'kill
This has been discussed many times by Kissena over the years. Take a search through the archives.
I believe, it's not just wheels, but tires. Over the years, I've ridden several different wheelsets. Light aluminum rims tubed and tubeless as well as carbon fiber rims with 21 and 23mm tires. First time American Classic 420 rims with 23mm clinchers. No problem. then Mavic Cosmic Carbones with 21mm tubulars. No problem. Then Zipp 404 tubulars (dimpled, semi-toriodal) with 21mm tires. Cracked the rear rim. Then Fulcrum Zero clinchers with tubeless tires. No problem. Then Zipp 404 Tubulars (dimpled, semi-toroidal in front and toroidal in rear) with 23mm tires. no problem.
I don't think the roads are that bad, and most of the dirt and gravel sections are fairly easy, though descending at over 40mph in a pack on dirt roads is not the most confidence-inspiring things.
I think 23mm tires on carbon-fiber tubulars works fine. For people who fear getting thrashed by the roads, try a 25mm racing clincher or tubular as William is wont to do.
Riding to Haverstraw on dirt--Mattie thanks for the tip. It's been a long time since I've done it, though I used to ride on 20mm tires when I was last there.
Mar 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM
(reposting)
I know this is a big thing for many. I want to suggest two kinds of rides.
One is riding dirt roads. I've already outlined how you can ride from Palisades, NY to Haverstraw, NY mostly on dirt roads. I'd just ride these steady to get comfortable riding on dirt and gravel.
Maybe ride hard on the section from Nyack to Piermont on the way back as it's usually pretty empty.
the seond one is road rides. I know some people are going out and hitting the hills. While there are hills at Battenkill, I don't think the hills are going to be the be-all and end-all of racing.
There is one long hill, that could be 6-7 minutes long, there is one steep hill on dirt, but mostly, the rises are fairly gentle or short in my opinion. I think the real issue is the cumulative fatigue you start feeling towards the end of the race.
I think it far more important to ride hard for a long time. By this, I mean that figure out the highest sustainable effort you can do for about three hours and do a few rides like that. Think of it like a "sweet spot ride," one that is the equivalent of the time you're going to race. Just steady hard most of the time, up the efforts on the hills, but don't rest on the descents, and then figure out a way to put in some hard efforts at the end of the ride.
If you're going out with a group, make it more like a team time trial. Ride steady hard all the time, possibly upping the effort on longer hills, but not so hard as to attack or dislodge the weakest
person in the group. Have the strongest rider(s) pull more and the weaker riders pull less. Then, if possible, have some hills at the end of the ride where you agree to attack each other. Like going through Englewood and having a succession of two or three hills where you ride as hard as possible and meet up after the last hill.
I know this is a big thing for many. I want to suggest two kinds of rides.
One is riding dirt roads. I've already outlined how you can ride from Palisades, NY to Haverstraw, NY mostly on dirt roads. I'd just ride these steady to get comfortable riding on dirt and gravel.
Maybe ride hard on the section from Nyack to Piermont on the way back as it's usually pretty empty.
the seond one is road rides. I know some people are going out and hitting the hills. While there are hills at Battenkill, I don't think the hills are going to be the be-all and end-all of racing.
There is one long hill, that could be 6-7 minutes long, there is one steep hill on dirt, but mostly, the rises are fairly gentle or short in my opinion. I think the real issue is the cumulative fatigue you start feeling towards the end of the race.
I think it far more important to ride hard for a long time. By this, I mean that figure out the highest sustainable effort you can do for about three hours and do a few rides like that. Think of it like a "sweet spot ride," one that is the equivalent of the time you're going to race. Just steady hard most of the time, up the efforts on the hills, but don't rest on the descents, and then figure out a way to put in some hard efforts at the end of the ride.
If you're going out with a group, make it more like a team time trial. Ride steady hard all the time, possibly upping the effort on longer hills, but not so hard as to attack or dislodge the weakest
person in the group. Have the strongest rider(s) pull more and the weaker riders pull less. Then, if possible, have some hills at the end of the ride where you agree to attack each other. Like going through Englewood and having a succession of two or three hills where you ride as hard as possible and meet up after the last hill.
Mar 22, 2012 at 12:35 PM
I'm planning on doing some hard miles on Saturday late morning in prep for Battenkill if anyone's interested in joining.
Mar 22, 2012 at 01:43 PM
I'm planning on racing saturday, then riding some more. Sunday would love a bag-of-hammers ride if one is available.
Mar 22, 2012 at 02:00 PM
I could do Sunday but it looked like rain (I too have little boy pants). I guess I'll keep an eye on the weather.
Mar 26, 2012 at 04:02 PM
In the future I would love to do as much out of town Sunday race's as I can so if anyone ever has room for me please let me know IL be happy to pay for Gas!!!
Nosson, 917-586-0170
Nosson, 917-586-0170
Apr 06, 2012 at 07:39 AM
I did this last year at Norm's. What to expect, how to ride, etc.
Could do it there or elsewhere (Dan might have a conference room if we can get numbers and a date). We need a people, and a date and we're running out of time.
First, is there interest? If I can get three or four yes's, we can probably proceed.
Could do it there or elsewhere (Dan might have a conference room if we can get numbers and a date). We need a people, and a date and we're running out of time.
First, is there interest? If I can get three or four yes's, we can probably proceed.
Apr 06, 2012 at 08:04 AM
I'm interested!
And grateful!
And grateful!
Apr 06, 2012 at 08:06 AM
i'm interested.....missed it last year, don't want to this year! thanks JP.
Apr 06, 2012 at 10:11 AM
I am interested as well.
Apr 06, 2012 at 11:39 AM
I'm definitely interested.
Apr 06, 2012 at 01:17 PM
yes
Apr 06, 2012 at 03:11 PM
This just in:
FROM: TOUR OF THE BATTENKILL PRO/AM
-------------------------------------------------
Hello.
You are receiving this email because the Cat 4 field has been sorted and is now viewable online. You are in the Cat 4 White field. Please note your start time.
Thank you very much for your patience as it took a bit longer than we thought.
See you in one week.
The Tour of the Battenkill
If you are racing Cat 4 and are NOT in the "White" field, please holler early so we can fix it.
FROM: TOUR OF THE BATTENKILL PRO/AM
-------------------------------------------------
Hello.
You are receiving this email because the Cat 4 field has been sorted and is now viewable online. You are in the Cat 4 White field. Please note your start time.
Thank you very much for your patience as it took a bit longer than we thought.
See you in one week.
The Tour of the Battenkill
If you are racing Cat 4 and are NOT in the "White" field, please holler early so we can fix it.
Apr 06, 2012 at 03:12 PM
Apr 06, 2012 at 03:12 PM
10:30 a.m. start time! I'll actually be awake!
Apr 06, 2012 at 03:22 PM
CAT 4's
The honorary Jeff White field!
Here's the link:
https://www.bikereg.com/NET/Confirmed/14431
Looks like all the NY teams are in our race: Hudson, Speedwell, FGX, Foundation etc
The honorary Jeff White field!
Here's the link:
https://www.bikereg.com/NET/Confirmed/14431
Looks like all the NY teams are in our race: Hudson, Speedwell, FGX, Foundation etc
Apr 06, 2012 at 03:22 PM
Aaaand they put us in with every other NYC team; hudson, siggis, speedwell, sids, foundation, fgx, etc
pretty lame to travel that far to race against guys we already know, but good I suppose if we know who to mark.
pretty lame to travel that far to race against guys we already know, but good I suppose if we know who to mark.
Apr 06, 2012 at 03:22 PM
...
Apr 06, 2012 at 03:24 PM
No Dave Vollbach in our team. Dave did you add Kissena to your Bikreg profile?