@ Marc and MW — OK so I'm hearing we need to top 15 position and the right 5-strongman breakaway could stick if it has a team mix. I would imagine a strong wind could potentially smash the field apart?

@ Mattie/team a train plan sounds cool. I think Marc's plan is solid. I know with me and Jules finishing lead out, we'd shut it down
In terms of the competing teams I scoped the entries:
4 FGX's — Josh Grossman is strong
9 NYVelo's! — Josh Sakofsky (in a break away), who is their fast guy?
6 Sids — v-strong team end of last season, don't know
6 Hudsons — Sergey Buryanenko strong
Omri Roden — strong sprinter, but no team mates.

We have a very strong line-up! Does anyone want to share 1/5/10 minute power data so we can assess strategy?
My Strava: 4-500?/392/333 (maybe a little high)

'Little high'- whatevs John. You've crushed more people with your wattage than Megatron. More like 1500/1392/1333.

Just a thought though. With all the monster watt-numbers being bound about, especially after some hamster-wheel sessions on the computrainers, it appears that people may have trained more for longer, consistent higher efforts than a sprint. Personally, I find those super-high end accelerations are hard to simulate without actual races under the belt so I think most people might be at a loss in that department right at the beginning of the season (same with the pros too from interviews etc. that I read). Why not put that 10 minute power to good use- go for the break?

When was the last time that anyone actually got into a break here and fully committed? I did it twice the whole of last season. TWICE. Pretty pathetic ( I think I did 23 races or so last year and I'm not a sprinter...). My usual story was get a gap, realise it's hard, convince yourself it's impossible and then get reabsorbed by the group...boring.

Everyone's banking on the sprint for this. With that in mind, and the fact that there is no-one who has out and out said 'Work for me, I'm the main man here for sprinting", I say break is the better option. If Mattie says he prefers to ride solo at the end, and came 3rd last year as a result, the team already has a 'back-up'. Pretty safe insurance as he was a length away from victory last year.

Simples- off the front.

@Adam. Go for the breaks. Be prepared for the sprint.

Last year, Kissena as group was exceptionally good at getting breaks going. Whether or not Dan Schmalz from NYC Velocity, or anyone else noted, the team changed the dynamic of many park races.

I would like to see anyone who is interested take the role as team captain throughout the season. That said, I think John would be a great leader for the first couple of outings to get you started.

You guys have an incredible line-up. The watts are, without question, outstanding.

Make it 8. Gotta do it once, right?

Observations:

@ Marc: John has no preferred style of sprinting or winning except pounding his opponents into submission. I'm only 10% joking and 90% serious here.

all:

I think you have 2 hands to play.

Get some dudes in a break. Jules, Whitey, Gideon, Tito, Yacks, Adam, even John M. Everyone seems strong from what I've seen.

If a break doesn't materialize, set it up for John and Mattie. I think it is a tossup here. Mattie is punchier and has good messy sprint smarts from what I gather, John can out drag race any 4 in a long sprint. If someone else has early season fitness and pop, speak up now.

Also, this group of guys is so strong that if you have a headwind on the final stretch it will be very difficult for other riders / teams to challenge you.

I think a couple of things need to be kept in mind: yes, getting in a break takes huge amounts of pain cave dedication, but can be great fun and rewarding. NYVelocity has numbers but I doubt the experience or strength.

I think there are 2 potential mistakes to be aware of.

1) getting in a breakaway and working TOO hard. look at the numbers around you. figure out what you need to do to get at least a top 3, if not win it. With super strong teammates, you don't want to get yourself 9th in a 9 man breakaway.

2) taking it too easy in the field. Kissena makes the race hard (in a smart way). There are fast men out there who have more pop than mattie and john. they need to hurt and work before the finale.

Win it!

This race goes off like a grenade. If you do not figure out the U-turn quickly you quickly get gapped and will be done with. It is true you must get out of the saddle and sprint for a wheel every lap coming out of that turn...do not take a lap off thinking it always comes togther. Getting organized for a finale is almost impossible in this race. You would have to start organizing it with 3 to go and have your train ready at 2 to go. By the time you hit the U-turn on the last lap...your position is pretty much secured. Preventing people from breaking into your train would be all but impossible with the downhill sweeping turn and the U-turn. Any line you think you are going to stick with becomes an illusion on the downhill and the U-turn. I think realistically the best chance we have in the finale is to "buddy-up" with the 2 to go and have 1 man be the lead out and the other the sprinter. I plan on looking around with 2 to go and grabbing the closest Kissena rider and will offer a lead out. The headwind was pretty bad last year in the sprint, plus it is uphill. Don't give up on your sprint...10th place can turn into top 5 in a finish like that. That's all I gots. Oh and I did a hard 54 miles yesterday followed by a spicey case of food poisoning. I am feeling completely shot today...

I"m feeling pretty good for a leadout man these days; did 530 for 1 and 324 for 8 yesterday at the end of a monster week. Definitely feel good for 370 ish for 5 after some rest.

Three things to keep in mind:

1) I'm scared of this race; no idea why, other than no experience in crits. Needless to say if I'm there at the end the nerves will have worn off and I'll be up for the full pain train. But just reading these posts makes my HR spike
2) if you have a sprint, and you get behind me in the final stretch don't go early! Yell like fuck and I'll open the throttle wide until the engine blows
3) my inclination is to commit; either go for the break that sticks or keep my powder dry for the leadout. Am I crazy?

As for the short course. My two times racing on it (1/2/3 and Cat 3 only) have led me to understand the U-Turn differently than Yacks. This technique may work for you.

As I come into the U-turn, being at the front is nice, but what I like to do is come into the turn tight, meaning close to the apex, and then accelerate out of the turn and decreasing the radius of my turn so that I essentially go to the curb on the right. As I am doing this, I am seated and spinning - HARD, obviously, but spinning nonetheless - and rapidly dropping a cog, spinning up again, dropping again, spinning up, etc... until I am at full speed. I am not terribly fond of standing and jumping to accelerate in a big gear. The small gear accelerations seem to provide the most bang for the buck - doable, but not killer.

My suggestion is that you work on your spinning and flexibility in cadence during the upcoming week and change so that you are comfortalbe spinning to get up to speed.

Again, what works for me, in part because I am a spinner by nature. Yacks like to stomp and smash things - all very beastly and uncivilized...

I ain't got no idear what my "numbers" are (no power meter). But I think I could probably do some damage when called upon. Not in great shape recovery wise, but it seems I've been doing ok when i ride with other folk. Yeeeeeeeeeehaw

easiest/most important advice:

TALK TO EACH OTHER THE WHOLE TIME!

there are no secrets in a bike race! tell each other how you're feeling, give instructions, and when the going gets tough, ORDER, don't ask!

cipolinni was famous for yacking with his lead-out man right up until the final launch, telling him to WAIT or GO based on his legs that day.

I'm like Jeff - no power meter, no idea what my "numbers" are (annoying, I know - I'm one of those *selective* Luddites). I do know from experience that I need to be in a break to have anything like a shot. I'll echo Mark's (and Jules') point about WAITING to sprint until close to the finish - that uphill start coming out of the turn is a killer.

Any 4's wanna ride the course before race day and discuss strategy? I suddenly realized that it's this weekend!

Tito,
It's next weekend.

All,
I'm happy to cut the traditional Friday ride short to go do laps at Grant's next friday. NEXT Friday.

And I'll again post my offer to lead some practice laps after Sunday morning's CP race.

Lol - whoops. Got a bit too excited.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSoS8r6LAOY
Skip to 17.32 to see where you shouldn't be at the finish (where camera guy is)

Wow that guy is bad.

I'm getting sick. I was due.

Probably won't feel like racing Saturday. So if any cat 4 wants my spot, I'll see if we can swap it to you.

Just "whisper" me. Shhhhhh....

If it is the sore throat thing, it is bad. All of us have been down hard since saturday.

yea I'm getting sick too...wasn't planning on doing grants tomb in the first place though.

just talked to al barouh of BH

Kissena and BH are two of the best-represented teams in the cat 3 race this Saturday

his guys will be following a similar strategy to ours: attack often in the first 3/4's of the race and try to make something stick. barring that, they want to stretch it out at the end to at least make if fast and safe.

al asked that we look for BH guys when we attack and encouraged us to join them when they attack.

that is that!

Posted By: WilliamDC
al asked that we look for BH guys when we attack and encouraged us to join them when they attack.

Good idea. Love the inter-team scheming!

12 kissena dudes in cat 4. 114 entered so far. Feeling good!

13 kissenas

I'm likely out

noooooo juuuuules

Jim's got my spot now. They transferred it. I'd come cheer you all on, but it's at like 7:30am and I'm sick.....so I kinda doubt it. Hopefully it will be less "eventful" than last Sunday. Good luck everyone!

Eric, after the race last sunday you mentioned race tactics and covering moves. Would you mind talking a little more about how we should approach grants. I.E. you said if we had one guy 2nd wheel we need to have another person about 20 wheels back covering moves when they go. I think we are looking like we will have 5 on our squad this weekend. Do we approach it the same way?

Basically, lets keep someone top 5, but not pulling and someone top 15. Then if an attack goes, the person in the 15th slot can follow it. If the pack decides to then follow, the person in the top 5 accelerates and is now in the top 15. If the break or attack that went with Mr. 15th gets caught, the former top 5 is now top 15 and can counter. Then someone needs to take over as top 5 and top 15 so that one person is helping slow a chase by not participating in the chase, rolling through, or if nobody is pulling, by sitting on the front setting a slower than the break tempo. Then the top 15 guy is looking for a move that will try to bridge and if one goes, the top 15 guy gets a free ride. That's how you get two teammates in a break.

If we're riding for a particular rider - like on Sunday for JP, then if the guy at the front top 5 sees that people are attacking and his teammates aren't covering the moves, the question is do you let a break form without Kissena? If the answer is no, then the top 5 guy accelerates as well and if the pack lets him go, he's in the break, but most likely, it keeps the field together. If you let the break go, then you better be sure your teammate can bridge or the break isn't likely to succeed.

Now how to get the "right guy" in the break? If you follow the top 5, top 15 paragraph, you get a teammate in the break, then JP is waiting for a move to go across or was the top 15 person and got in a move or countered off a move to get away.

All of this requires heads up racing and comunication. Plus fitness to be there at the front and in the breaks. So we've got to talk to each other, but also know what should be happening with our teammates. My comments on Sunday were that I was being the top 5 guy and realized that we didn't have a top 15 guy. When I attacked, I was in the front but did it on a hard section halfway through figuring that JP would be in position. It strung out the field and JP was in teh right spot, but that's because I trusted his experience and he trusted his. The move didn't work.

The other move of the race was when a small group was away and Mike and I both came over 110berg. He went left, I stayed right, he went from the front and I didn't to avoid a chase. I then pulled top 5 duty. What didn't happen was another attempt to bridge which should have had a KCC waiting top 15.

Does all that make some sense?

@ Eric, what about two up attacks? In Cat 4 we have 13 entered. Could we not try the same but with pairs? The reason I'm asking is because in many C4 park races we get 1 Kissena dangling at 10-20 seconds, who is then brought back... I don't know if it's a lack of racing strategy or what, but it seems the Cat 4 teams/riders are happy to pull back attacks, but not so interested in planting a rider in a break. The other thing that happens is someone thinks they are "attacking" by just rolling off the front and the bunch latches on and is dragged up. Lastly, many riders are happy to just sit on the front and hammer all day long with no one up the road (as per video)—perhaps it's a "training race" rationale at play.

Cat 3 race at Tomb I'm envisaging it's bam, bam, bam until the field starts to splinter or something sticks—Cat 4 not so much. I think we could bring the Bam! Bam! to Cat 4.

Does anybody know if they DQ you for taking your hands off the bars??? I'm practicing my victory salute...thanks
Yacks