That chicane was just a horrible idea.

There was a fastest lap prime on the first lap (and in the middle of the race). From what I read when they released the updated series point standings, your placing was based on where you were when you last crossed the start/finish line before you got pulled.

This means that there was incentive to go screaming through that chicane (which was strategically placed 50-100m before the start/finish) on virtually every lap. Whether it was to stay with the lead group, grab a prime, or place, racers were going in hot. The first wheel out of that chicane would be the first wheel across the line; we saw that.

That's a recipe for a fucking disaster. We saw that too, as did many on the internet. What were Trimble and Bezdek thinking when they threw that in there?

I was there @eloy. I was there from the first qualifying round on.

I camped out. I said wassup to my buds. I got coffee from the Waffles and Dinges truck. My girlfriend ran the 5k. I watched the whole thing. I was there bro. Capice?

I saw the last chase group going screaming into that corner when it became evident that they were getting pulled with about 9 to go or something. That was the group behind Al's chase group. I was hanging out with a bunch of Kissenas about 20m behind the chicane. I got to see how they rode into it on every lap.

The racers pulling to the side were the ones that were trying to get off the course. They had been pulled. Their race was over. If the lead moto honked at you, you were out. If it was imminent, then you had to do your best to cross that line before that dude beeped at you.

There was incentive to fly through that chicane, no doubt about it.

The reason it wasn't as crashy during the qualifiers is because people weren't racing. There's a big difference between pre-riding, going for your hot lap, and racing, especially when you have to keep up with Evan, Neil, Dan, etc... You know racing right? That's where you're fucking dieing and trying to keep it together while you're going so fast that you're scared shitless. That one.

I'll say it again, the chicane was a very very bad idea. Forget the flats and the inexperience. I'm tired of bike handling excuses too. The reason that the guys up front didn't crash was because 1) they had the easy line, 2) they had no one on either side of them messing with them, and 3) they were lucky. Pedal strikes are all it took to take people down in that turn. And when you come in hot you've got to lean that mofo. It's like playing russian roulette.

Technical crits are not meant for track bikes. Seriously, you're just asking for trouble. It's why they're called track bikes. It's why the track is angled. Novelty and fashion aside, it's a bad idea to get 'technical' on a track bike.

Still struggling to understand why people get excited about crits for track bikes, but not so much about crits for road bikes.

I've said it before, I wish Trimble would turn his promotional powers towards good and runs some road bike crits in the city.

Looking forward to racing in Harlem this weekend at least.

My problem (besides the course and relative boredom) was the crowd. I'm all for attracting new fans to cycling but I doubt that's what this is providing.

People were laughing and cheering the crashes like a cool spectacle, saying to each other "you get that?!?" on their cell phones.

They didnt care that 5 people finished. All they saw was flood lights, people going in circles at night, and hip people hanging out. The crashes made it entertaining to many of them. I talked to quite a few casual spectators after the race a d they loved it. Really? These are people who ONLY go to red hook crit races mind you.

I dunno. I'm old but I guess I'm over crash porn.

Years ago, when I was chasing the dream, there was one big twilight crit, Athens. It was insane. Full pro teams, drunk college kids everywhere. I had a beer thrown on me as I was carving through a corner at 28 mph. It was both terrifying and eye-opening. I don't need/want those kinds of "fans" showing up to bike races. I'd rather race a Sunday morning office park crit with no one watching.

eloy said:

@vlad I apologize if my post generated your combative tone. 

Those were the 2 corners before the finish. Obviously, whoever was racing was going as fast as possible. Anyone pulled was not. 

As I mentioned, no doubt Trimble and crew will take many learnings from this race and adjust properly.

Crits on track bikes are young concept, still lots to learn. Like anything new, will have to adapt as it grows in popularity. They are a few dozen, maybe more, of these being held all over the world every year for the past few years (most not Trimble organized,) this suggests that perhaps it is a concept that works.

I doubt Sat's race would have been much different on road bikes. But it is impossible to know.

There is something else that the RHC has going for it, there is a very strong sense of community. There is real camaraderie between all involved. This matters. It is what makes cycling what we want it to be.

cheers,

Eloy

Eloy, 

The irony is that it takes an "unsanctioned" race to highlight the value of a category system!  What was a Cat 5, 14 year old doing lining up against Bezdek & co?

LOL, I I found another crash video, but the commentary on this is hilarious:

"mothafukkaz don't got brakes man, niggaz iz craaazee"

"this turn is wicked yo, there's gonna be 5 bikers by the end of the race."

haha

http://youtu.be/BJEGkhSRVE8

Jules said:

The irony is that it takes an "unsanctioned" race to highlight the value of a category system!  What was a Cat 5, 14 year old doing lining up against Bezdek & co?

In fairness, didn't the 14 year old crash in the qualifier?  And isn't he a cat three on the track and a five on the road?  

Great to see so many Kissena's step up individually and donate to Joshua's medical fund (Clifford, Kieran, Aaron, Phillip, Thierry, Normanzo, Rick, sorry if I missed you....or if you donated anonymously, kudos to you, too!)

The vast majority of cycling has no categories, correct? Is all of Europe to be condemned?

Someone needs to invent a safer crit barrier.

dstearns said:

Any interest in having the club itself make a small donation?  

Would USA Cycling insurance cover the bills if this had been a sanctioned race?

mugwump said:

dstearns said:

Any interest in having the club itself make a small donation?  

Would USA Cycling insurance cover the bills if this had been a sanctioned race?

What USAC insurance? The only thing they cover is when you crash into an unsuspecting bystander while racing. You as a racer indemnify USAC, the promoter, officials, venue, other racers and anybody you've ever met from any liability in the event you are injured in a race.

Unless Dave Trimble can be shown to have been negligent, I doubt his insurance from this race would cover anything less or more than USAC insurance.

dstearns said:

Any interest in having the club itself make a small donation?  

I think it is a very nice gesture but given that the funds may (or may not) end up being used to litigate we're probably best to keep the donations at a personal level.

So I'm right in thinking that Josh's medical bills aren't covered by insurance because this was an unsanctioned race? If so (and without trying to sound like a crazy socialist European), the US medical system never ceases to amaze (and madly infuriate) me. Poor guy, so rough to have that happen at any age, but esp so young.

And sure, crits on track bikes look cool, but like Mark says, couldn't we just have more crits on road bikes AND then *wait for it, crazy idea* some more track races on track bikes?! Or is racing in Flushing just not cool enough compared to racing on a deathtrap industrial wasteland in Brooklyn?! (must not be, comparing the amount of guys at RHC with the turnout at your typical track meet at Kissena).

I don't think his insurance situation is public.

Jules said:

dstearns said:

Any interest in having the club itself make a small donation?  

I think it is a very nice gesture but given that the funds may (or may not) end up being used to litigate we're probably best to keep the donations at a personal level.

that's fine, i guess.  but if that's the case, then why are we using the club's official social media channel to promote it?  there's no difference, optics wise, between that and giving the kid a hundred bucks.    

kieranleahy said:

And sure, crits on track bikes look cool, but like Mark says, couldn't we just have more crits on road bikes AND then *wait for it, crazy idea* some more track races on track bikes?! Or is racing in Flushing just not cool enough compared to racing on a deathtrap industrial wasteland in Brooklyn?! (must not be, comparing the amount of guys at RHC with the turnout at your typical track meet at Kissena).

I reminded myself of this from UK show the Day Today: is this cool..?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vWHNwmzf1o

This is really bad. What happened to Josh I'm sure was an accident and I hope that his recovery will be quick.

What's likely going to happen to Dave saddens me too. I feel like the litigation will garner as much press and interest, at least by the local cycling community, as these novelty races.

Some of you have heard me tell this story, but I'll share it with the rest of you. I volunteered at RHC 3, 4, and 5. The week before RHC 5, Markus Bohler died at the one of the popular Bethel Spring Series races in CT. He was in the 3/4 race when he crashed and sustained a head injury. One of my former teammates (this was before I joined Kissena) was in that race and he was terrified. He told me that they continued to race as Markus lay there motionless with the pool of blood around his head growing bigger. They did a couple of laps before they were neutralized and the race was cancelled.

I was also disturbed by the death of Markus. It shook me to my core. I know that what we do is dangerous, but I try not to think of it as deadly. Markus' death made it terribly real. I spent that whole week in an affected daze. That following Saturday night, just about an hour before the race, as we RHC volunteers were having our meeting and getting our course assignments, I felt compelled to ask the marshall organizer how to treat serious crashes such as those where the racer wasn't moving. I asked what we should do, who we should signal, and how we should communicate that. The marshall captain had no idea and asked Dave to come over. I posed the same questions to Dave. He blew me off in an outstanding douche moment. He basically listened to my questions, turned around, said something like "I have to go do this now", and rode away. That's when I decided that this would be my last time volunteering at his race(s).

I have nothing personal against Dave. I'm incredibly impressed by what he's turned these races into, but I think that they're exceptionally dangerous. I only hope that Dave takes the liability and potential for something tragic to happen (as it did with Josh) more seriously than he took me that night.

I think some are missing the point on why RHC has so much attention around it.  And if you look at a lot of the top riders they come from the messenger / Alleycat culture -- giving it an "edge" I suppose.  Even Bezdek was a messenger from what I recall.  It is about handling a track bike in technical situations, stemming out of Monstertrack and several other pre-red hook unsanctioned street races or park crits. 

mugwump said:

dstearns said:

Any interest in having the club itself make a small donation?  

Would USA Cycling insurance cover the bills if this had been a sanctioned race?

USAC insurance would cover his medical bills if it had been sanctioned. There is a cap of $25k and it is excess insurance, meaning it'll cover after his own insurance first. If he is uninsured (which I would guess is unlikely given his age since there are cheap or free options in NYS for minors) there is a $5k deductible. See more info here: http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=2042

Dan Reiners said:

What USAC insurance? The only thing they cover is when you crash into an unsuspecting bystander while racing. You as a racer indemnify USAC, the promoter, officials, venue, other racers and anybody you've ever met from any liability in the event you are injured in a race.

https://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=2042

I should add that the big fight over Colorado and Oregon's independent bike racing associations not being a part of USAC is the insurance issue. The local associations claim they can get just as good coverage at a lower cost than the USAC mandated insurance. In came into play with the enforcement / non-inforcement of a UCI rule about licensed riders prohibited from racing in "unsactioned" events.

Don't know if it is real or not but Lance just contributed $1k to the gofundme drive for Josh.

dstearns said:

Jules said:

dstearns said:

Any interest in having the club itself make a small donation?  

I think it is a very nice gesture but given that the funds may (or may not) end up being used to litigate we're probably best to keep the donations at a personal level.

that's fine, i guess.  but if that's the case, then why are we using the club's official social media channel to promote it?  there's no difference, optics wise, between that and giving the kid a hundred bucks.    

Dave I'm not sure I agree but the point is a good one and well taken.  My thinking was that short of giving money we could help with visibility - Vaughters, Hincapie, Myerson, Evie Stevens, etc have retweeted.