Love the art.

Great. You can see those descents are sketchy!

Nathaniel, these are really great. Thank you for sharing.
j

Great sketches!

Is it possible to do some training that will/may improve one's performance between two week-end races. I've just finished ToC and will race at Tokeneke this Sunday. Rode my indoor cycle for one hour this morning (active recovery/velocity). I have time to ride in the morning this week, but after ToC I think riding three or four hours would not be as useful as doing repeats (one minute repeats uphill near marathon avenue/5 minutes on LIE service road) on Tuesday and Thursday. Any thoughts?

Three hard days in a row? I'd rest today and tomorrow for sure. Since Tokeneke is on Sunday (it's on Sunday, no), you can put in a hard ride either Wednesday or Thursday, but you don't have to. The first priority this week is recovery.

I'd recommend being flexible about what your hard day is about. If you feel good Wednesday, do the hill repeats. If you don't, you can think about doing them Thursday. If you still feel tired Thursday, keep it light and know you need some good, hard openers Saturday.

As a tall guy, my number one thing is "Get Low"

Free Watts.

The other thing worth mentioning is that if you're in a race with teammates and you decide to spend some watts going out into the wind to move up - bring a team mate with you!

The guys were fantastic at this during the Catskills.

Posted By: Jules RoazenAs a tall guy, my number one thing is "Get Low"

Free Watts.

This is why I'm considering focusing on time trials and ultra endurance events. I just try to find the big duds and draft them. After I got dropped at the Catskills I politely asked a rider ahead of me in the Gruppetto if I could take his position since the guy in front was as tall as me but a bit wider. Whew.

The guy who won the last stage of the Catskills (Cat 4B) this year was tall, but his position was quite upright. Aerodynamics probably didn't matter all that much with all the climbs. I always wonder about power to the pedals vs aerodynamics.

I second what J.P. has to say about latex tubes and open tubular tires. I have my Neuvation C50 tubulars with Vittoria CX tires and the ride quality is almost identical to my aluminum Neuvations with latex tubes and open tubular Vittorias. The tubies are lighter, deeper and simply faster. The ride quality though on both is superb. I am completely spoiled to the point that if I can't be on my open tubulars, I'de rather not ride (it's that good). I ride em at 95 rear and 90 front and they soak up all the road chatter and are glued to the road. They do not last very long, but are soooo worth the $$$. Its like going from Natural Light to Sierra Nevada Pale Ale...that much of a difference between say a regular tube and low tpi count tire.

yacks

Training. What is it, how do you do it, will it make you a better person?

We traditionally have a training talk at the start of December every year. Everyone in Kissena is welcome to come. We go over the basics of not only how to set up a training plan, but how to train, why train, and more. Not only will there be a talk, but you'll leave with a printed training guide that can function as a reference manual.

The reason we set it for this time of year is that if you're starting your race season in March, starting structured training in December gives you a nice three-month build to prepare for racing.

I'm starting to scout for a space. I'll put up a Doodle poll in a few days to gauge interest.

Looking forward to this!

I see this thread has bubbled to the top again.

What sayeth thou about off season Power Cranks?
As I understand it the premise is to recruit additional muscle groups in order to decrease "dead spots" in the pedal stroke and improve muscle efficiency so that one leg never works against the other. Former HTC's Marco Pinotti uses them (Italian TT champ for some years). Supposedly a large part of Armstrong's training focused on pedaling efficiency http://www.active.com/triathlon/Articles/Bike_like_Lance.htm. Possible Cool Aid here: http://www.powercranks.com/Lance.html

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=7697

Ian you had a set—what's the skinny?

John,
I haven't tried power cranks. THey're interesting. I'd love to dry them However, there are some issues to consider. First of all, studies have shown that the people who ride the fastest push down the hardest, don't have the most round stroke. Secondly, there's quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that in order to pull up enough to turn the power cranks around, most people end up pushing down less hard. Third, most people who use them seem to employ lower cadence,making less about improving one's stroke and more a kind of weight training. Fourth, as with many kinds of training, once you stop using the cranks, your ability to pull up will almost certainly atrophy. Fifth, the people who use them may be self-selecting in that they already have a pretty round stroke to begin with (mountain bikers who do lots of uphills on loose dirt and gravel typically have very round strokes).

A thought experiment. If power cranks create greater efficiency, and a round stroke is most efficient, why aren't people racing them?

This isn't to write they don't work. I know people who acknowledge all of the above but feel that they've seen improvements in their riding as a result and that's all that matters to them. And there are other ways to get better at pulling up without dropping all the cash on a crank. Overgearing, undergearing, one-legged pedalling, weights.

I met the guy who makes power cranks years ago. A sort of interesting note is that he told me triathletes routinely break the clutch mechanism and that it's much less common in road racers.

Also, discount Lance. I would figure that many top pro riders have tried them, and he probably did as well. For him, I gather that Ferrari's advice probably helped most of all, and some of that included high-cadence climbing, something Ferrari is allegedly a big proponent of. And Armstrong's alleged gains in efficiency are based on a single researcher testing Lance once or twice a year in a poorly-controlled study that has been roundly criticized--supposedly Armstrong gained something like 9% efficiency after already being one of the top cyclists in the world and dropped a ton of weight while maintaining his power. I'm not writing it's impossible, but highly unlikely.

If you do get them, I think you'd need to not only pedal at a cadence above 90rpm, but actually learn how to sprint on them.

Here's a link to questions about armstrong's alleged improvement in efficiency. http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/09/coyle-and-armstrong-research-errors.html

John,

My 2 cents would be to look more closely at thinks like the q-rings which have a physics based mechanical advantage. Chad at Endurance Werks (sp?) can probably talk your ear off on the topic.

Frankly I doubt that a former pro trackie like yourself has much in his riding form that isn't already pretty smooth... you can always improve the fluidity of your "GYMKATA!!!!" delivery though... practice makes perfect!

J

John

I've started using them this year, I like them, and can now manage about 75 mins on them round the park. I started because a lot of people who I ride with swear by them and I trust their advice.

The aim isn't really to smooth out the pedal stroke, that just tends to happen by accident.

The aim isn't really to engage more muscle so that you go faster, since as JP says, most of the force is generated in the down stroke.

The purpose is to engage more muscles so that the main muscle (principally the quads) are used less, and so are just that bit fresher towards the end of race.

At least that's the theory as I've been told it.

I have found that cadence is indeed typically lower, pedalling with these things is most similar to climbing seated, so 70rpm is about where I started.
However I have now progressed to cadence drills and sprinting on them (which I hasten to add is f****king scary the first few times) so I'm getting better with them.

Also I don't ride them every day - either once or at max twice a week. In fact it is crucial to return to standard cranks often because I focus so much on pulling up with power cranks that I neglect the normal down stroke. So using PC and normal cranks makes sure I work on both.

Do I think they make a difference ? I think so. I can climb a lot better seated than I used to (although that isn't really saying much). Also when riding on the flat I just pull up more than I used to, I don't really notice it most of the time and then I'll surprise myself by how easily I pull the pedal up and quickly over the top and into the 'power phase' of the stroke.

The disadvantages of them are: they hurt like hell; they weigh a ridiculous amount (almost 2kg); they have a really wide Q factor

Ack! I just deleted my wordy post.

@ Ian - I noticed that you have really good pedal form. Attributed it to bike fit, sounds like it's probably a combo of the two. Thanks much for the dish.

@ DC - That all makes sense, very informative—I never thought of the possibility that LA's "data" could be doped as well :^) tnx.

@ Jules - do you use Rotor? Or GymRotor?

Couple of pretty convincing reads re Power Cranks efficacy:
http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=6809
http://nyvelocity.com/content/equipment/2008/powercranks-part-2

John,

Thanks. the Pez article is actually interesting. And it's interesting to see that the pro riders who they quoted figured out very specific drills, which is pretty different than what Horowitz recommended.

There are still a few things to address. There's the uncertainty principle. That just observing your stroke differently could be the most valuable change and leads to the biggest changes. It also seems that the proponents are time-trialists more than anything else.

As for Rotor, I haven't tried them. While I don't think chain rings have to be round, I tried O. Symetric and couldn't adapt.

The reason I'm interested is that I have a weaker hip flexor on one side which I attribute to nerve damage from a crappy appendix op. Literally my right side will give out before the left when I max out in an all-out high wattage effort. I am starting swimming this winter, but am thinking PC's would help me sort the imbalance better and faster. More importantly I could get a tear-down from Sir Bike Snob:
http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/search?q=powercranks (scroll down).

I realize this is a silly question: Why not just do hip flexor exercises? Probably just lying supine on the floor and raising your weaker leg would help strengthen it.

I didn't realize anyone read Bike Snob anymore.

BSNYC is still funny. Plus, he gave me free stuff!

I ♥ Bike Snob.

By the way, "I didn't realize that anyone read Bike Snob anymore" sounds like a Bike Snob comment. Are you new Bike Snob?

Beautiful...

I'm still on the lookout for a space for this training talk. Anyone have one? Joe? Neil?

Let me make some calls will get back to you soon. What day are you thinking

How much space do we need for this?
Need a TV/projector?

In terms of dates, sometime in teh first week or two of december, not fridays, and I can't do wednesday 12/7. So that leaves us...

December 1, 5, 6, 8. Any of those days work for people? I'll put up a doodle poll shortly. Start time will be 7pm.

I am thinking more old school chatter with paper handouts.

Here's the Doodle Poll for the Training Talk

Respond Today!

http://www.doodle.com/y7nm59mvyq8fdtmq;jsessionid=B1D5765158899ECE876AFC30E123B7DE.worker2

currently, six people have expressed interest. Anyone else out there? Vote now.

Seven now...

I went to take a look at how the doodle is doing, but now doodle says survey not found.

JP - any idea ?