Max cadence is on descents. They run out of gears and spin in their 53/11. Apparently, the rules are that you should never do that crouch-tuck thing they do when they sit ont he crossbar until you have nothing left from your gears (i.e. pedalling doesn't help). Hence, they're supposed to rev up before doing it. Unless, of course, you are just lazy and want to rest.

Am I being naive to think it's a good sign that so many teams are posting those data on the Internet, as if they have nothing to hide?

Naive, no. Hopeful yes.

I think everyone agrees that the Tour in recent years is shockingly slower than in the height of the "dopage". It's not like the species just got weaker.

On the other hand, everyone *also* agrees that current test do not catch all kinds of transgressions - micro dosing of EPO, or "special" scenarios that just aren't covered properly (http://inrng.com/2011/07/mosquera-vacansoleil-vuelta/)

So take your pick. The sport is (I think) obviously clean-er, but is it (or will it ever be) Clean... much harder to say.

j

It's been 6 days since I returned from my Euro trip, and I must emphatically say that being at Alpe d'Huez and experiencing the day and watching the race go by was an amazing experience, and a must for anyone who really enjoys the sport. The day before, Patrick and I climbed the mountain, and that, too, is a must. It's a hard mountain to climb. Both of us pushed the other, at times taking the other to the brink of getting dropped as climbed the mountain together. He said he took 13 minutes of his previous years time. I've forgotten what the actual time was, though - my mind was a little blurry after that effort.
For the day, my girlfriend Ana and i took our bikes in the car and parked around 10k from the bottom of the climb. We rode to the climb and joined the procession walking up the mountain. Ana said the last time she experienced anything like that was when the pope John Paul visited Croatia (minus the drinking, of course). Walking up, we saw many interesting fans, including a guy from LA dressed as a Mexican wrestler carrying Mexican and American flags who we walked up a little bit with. We ended up at turn 10, with the Steven Morabito fan club, all decked out in BMC jerseys and a nice tent setup (the Swiss are masters of organization). We could see the race in the valley, and in the turns below and above, from our vantage point. Contador went by like a machine. Shortly afterwards a Europcar rider goes by and no one knows who he is (the winner, Rolland). The small groups with contenders and then their helpers. When i saw Hincapie, I screamed out, "Go Georgie!! Kissena, George!" And for the second year in a row I was ignored (a couple days later a pretty blonde girl said that George saw her and smiled as she cheered for him, so I think if I'm there next year, I'll wear a blonde wig and some big tits under a kissena jersey - that should work). When Morabito came by he swung to the back of his small group and with a huge grin high-fived the entire fan club as he rode by. Very cool and fun for everyone involved. I also witnessed a Liquigas rider getting a can of coke and a pat on the back from an older man that looked like his father. It's great to see the small stories go by on that mountain. It has an energy like none other. Patrick and his family took a series of cable cars up the mountain to right near the finish line so I'm sure his story is a bit different but likely just as spectacular.
It's definitely about the race, but it actually comes closer to a festival with a race that passes through.
I also saw Sestriere and the final TT. But the Alpe was the king of them all.
A big thank-you to Stephane, who recommended the hotel we stayed in. It was a good choice, right off the highway and situated near many spectacular climbs.
And I have to give a huge thank-you to my girlfriend, who did a lot of driving to make this all happen. For me, she is the real champion, allowing me to live a dream I've had since I was a child, and making it even better by joining in the fun.
In the next week I'll be posting some of the drawing/paintings I did over the 3 days of TDF watching on my facebook page. I'm going through and color correcting some of it now. For those of you connected to me there, keep an eye out.

Ugh, bad blog entry from Horner (make sure you read to the end).

http://www.cascadegranfondo.com/blog/what-i-did-my-summer-vacation…

@Nathaniel

That's a great post. I saw a stage of the Tour of California and that gave me chills. I can only imagine that experience x20. Thanks for sharing.

@ Ryan - thanks for sharing that. Hope his recovery smooths out from here on out.

I love the Redneck as much as anyone, but it does bear mention...

http://pages.citebite.com/t9x2o4l0konj

Sadly that was first thought as well Jules.

But the smart play on EPO is supposed to be microdoses. And a clot would suggest a big dose or an adverse reaction from the EPO mixing poorly with something else. Then again, I would think a higher hematocrit could help speed healing, and maybe this is how to quickly get ready for Colorado. But HGH might be the better drug for speeding healing.

Also, blood clots are pretty common for this type of trauma.

The whole situation is lose-lose.
It's a terrible slander to bring against him and I'm the first to admit it. I don't wish him any harm, and I sure hope he's clean.
The guy went from "contender" at the TDF and now he's done for the season... and to add insult to injury his fan base is chirping about doping...

i'm sending him a care package of artisanal mustards . . . i hope he likes it

Luckily for us the slander laws here in the US are very poor indeed !

I want all the racers I watch to be clean but in some cases what I'm watching just doesn't seem right.
In the ToC you had domestic teams of riders in their 20's who were peaking for their #1 goal of the year and yet two 40 year old dudes just rode away from everyone ... and they looked like they were breathing through their noses and not even breaking sweat.

Even if you don't add in the convenient fact of them being on the same team ..... it all looked very suspicious.

I'm sorry but Leipheimer, Horner, Kloden and Popo don't seem clean to me at all.

Hold on, it seems to me that the fact that endurance athletes reach their peak in their 30s is pretty well documented/researched. Author Malcolm Gladwell recently wrote in his book Outliers, that it takes about 10,000 hours of doing anything to become expert at it.

Closer to home, look at our club...who are our strongest and best performing riders? I haven't IDed anyone in a while, but I look around and you'll see guys with grey in their hair riding away from you on a climb, or beating you in a town line sprint.

^ yeah . . . when they juke the finish line

ZING!

edit: fyi i now have a grey hair on the right side of my head

He seems kind of endearing in this interview I think. I have not totally made my mind up on Cav, I think he seems alright though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cycling/14369476.stm

@Marc Bertucco- Malcolm Gladwell said that about 10,000 hours and expertise. I always quote that sort of thing in my bar chat, nice to know who actually said it. I could never remember. Thanks.

"Max cadence is on descents. They run out of gears and spin in their 53/11. Apparently, the rules are that you should never do that crouch-tuck thing they do when they sit ont he crossbar until you have nothing left from your gears (i.e. pedalling doesn't help). Hence, they're supposed to rev up before doing it. Unless, of course, you are just lazy and want to rest."

200rpm with 53x11 is 75mph... doesn't sound right.

Yes it does.

Here's a bit of banal chat from another forum, not sure how accurate it is but I have heard, according to Paul Sherwen whilst commentating, that someone hit 115kmph on a descent. One guy in this forum apparently says that Lance mentions 70mph in his book. Not read it so can't corroborate.


http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-80722.html

John,
Thanks for doing the calculations.

There are some difficulties with the 75mph or 115kph possiblity. For one, many cycling speedometers don't read over 60mph. For another, the road needs to be straight long and steep to reach those kind of speeds. And in France, there aren't many of those.

I think the 200rpm might have been a glitch.

I disagree strongly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tFpNsZXWgc

In this video, these two guys are doing 100kmph (check the video at 26 seconds) and this descent is by no means extraordinary. Granted, this isn't 115kmph but there are only two of them and I'm not sure if that was their maximum speed. This surely suggests that it is plausible at least to go 115kmph, no?

"For another, the road needs to be straight long and steep to reach those kind of speeds. And in France, there aren't many of those." Not overly sure this is accurate. The descent of Galibier (after ascending the 'harder' side) is an example of a long straight descent, in France.

http://www.mapmyride.com/s/routes/view/bike-ride-map/france/lyon/360181

If you check the map, from 115km in this ride to 122km, this is just about 25% of the descent of Galibier. In this entire 7km there is only one switchback. Long and straight, no?

The straight stretch on the Galibier, is it between Bonnenuit ("Goodnight"! what a name for a place!) and La Charmette ? I rode down there only once and had to be cautious (end of a TdF stage), so I don't recall it very well, but that would just be a "small" part of the whole descent, the rest is not straight at all (I drove it up last September).
BTW, on the video it's Cormet de Roselend, north of the Galibier:
http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?col=Cormet-de-Roselend&qryMountainID=6771

i remember reading an interview with Max Lelli recalling a time he hit 115kph

he said he was very frightened

dave vollbach and i hit 91kph on a hill in Dutchess County a few years ago

i was very frightened

Adam,
First, I erred. 75mph is more like 120kph. Are these guys pedaling at 120kph? Since that video does show 100kph and all the guys are coasting, I suggest to you that few, if any, pedal a 53x11 on the road at 200rpm. I think hitting 115kph is pretty hard. Wind resistance does not increase linearly with speed, but closer to exponentially. And then when you add in the focus and movements that take place when pedaling at 200rpm, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I've seen over 60mph on a computer a few times. I did one race where my older recording computer registered 59.8mph. After the race, someone said we were doing 65mph. I doubted it, but then I read that my computer maxed out at 60mph,so it might have been possible.

Now, I've ridden La Marmotte, which the map shows.

Not sure which side you see as the harder one--having ridden both sides, I consider the climb up from the foot of the Telegraphe to be the harder side and the climb from the Lautaurets the easier side. So, the descent from the summit of the Galibier to the foot of the Lautarets I guess it is possible to hit 100kph, but having ridden it and watched it on tv I don't think they go that fast for long, if at all. I watched it in 2005, shortly after I rode it and I think most of the guys were going in the 70-80kph range. There are too many curves. Then, when you make the right to go toward Bourg d'Oisans, the road is much flatter, though straighter. Here, too, I think it would be really hard to go 100kph there. However, the bottom several kilometer of the Galibier if you're descending toward the foot of the Telegraphe is straight and long and could be very fast. I can see people riding at 100kph there. And if you descend the Croix de Fer going toward Alpe d' Huez, the top is straight and steep and long and people could hit 100kph there--I was above 50mph on my training wheels and a road open to traffic.

But, for the most part, both from my experience in the Alps and watching the Pyrenees, it seems that the tops of mountains in the alps and pyrenees have steeper, switch-backier, narrower roads than the approaches. The approaches seem to generally have wider, straighter, flatter roads. so, where the pitch of the road could result in greater speed, the roads are often too twisty and narrow to really speed.

And finally, you're trusting Sherwen and Liggett? Really? They're fun to listen to, but they are always over the top with their descriptions. Every year is always the 'best tour in years', the 'biggest crowds they've seen in ages,' 'the hardest tour they can remember.'

Hah, true, Sherwen and Ligget do add a sense of drama to their commentary. I suppose that's why they're so popular. Very engaging.

I was not suggesting that anyone rides constantly at 200 RPM in their 53/11, I was simply saying that I've read, and it makes sense, that in true racing terms you should max out your gears before going into super coast mode, without pedaling. Of course, this isn't an absolute and most people stop pedaling and start coasting when the cadence gets silly (you know, when you start bouncing, about 150 RPM or whatever it is). However, if you are supermotivated and going for a TdF stage victory, it would make sense to max out your gears to get as fast as possible, then coast. With this in mind, I believe 200 RPM is very possible and I see no evidence to suggest a technical glitch to account for this. Although I do take your point that older computers maxed out at certain speeds, I am unaware of such limitations on modern Garmins etc., although this does not mean that this is not the case. I would be surprised if a modern, $500 Garmin EDGE stops registering at 60 mph, that's not too unreasonable a speed for even weekend warriors like ourselves to achieve (you achieved it yourself in a race, as described in your post). Finally, there is no chance that anyone could keep 200 RPM for any decent time. I believe the max cadence recorded in the riders' data refers to their absolute max at any point in the ride. This means that in all likeliness it was for a few seconds at most.

I'm pretty sure that there is no gearing possible for you to pedal at 75 mph (maybe a 60/10 or something). Hence, your question 'Are these guys pedaling at 120 kmph?'-obviously not. I am suggesting that they max out their gears and coast as aero as possible. I just don't think that, on a good day, in a group who are committed, with the wind at their backs, that it is too unreasonable to believe that 75 mph is possible. Apparently, some pros mess about at training camp with the team cars at these sort of speeds (http://cyclocosm.com/2011/01/factcheck-adam-blythe/) so they have some experience at that velocity.

I too have ridden Marmotte. Think I was at about 70 kmph down Galibier. I was going as fast as my sensible neurons would let me go. I saw plenty of people going significantly faster than me (my descending was, and to a degree still is, a weakness of mine). Not saying 120 kmph, but fast, and they were not professionals on closed roads. As you said, lots of the pros in the peloton will coast 70-90 kmph. Why risk more? Unless of course chasing on or breaking away is the objective...

On the steepest part of the most favourable descent, with good weather conditions, I just don't see how 75 mph doesn't fit into the realm of plausible. Also, a cadence of 200 RPM for a few seconds on a mountain descent, also possible.

@ JP. "Croix de Fer going toward Alpe d' Huez": you mean the part that goes to the Col du Glandon, you make a left towards the Lac de Grand Maison/Bourg d'Oisans? If so, yes, it should be pretty fast (I climbed it last September going the other way, from the Glandon to the Croix de Fer).

(What about a whole week/10 days of riding there next year? June is one of the best months (roads are open, few tourists, cheaper airline seats, etc.)... that deserves a new post....)

John,
Maybe you can analyze the file and find out where it is. Perhaps it's a glitch, perhaps someone is motorpacing, perhaps descending. Or all three at once.

Adam,
I still think you're underestimating the wall of wind someone has to go through at 120kph. There's a difference between drafting a car at that speed and going it alone (nice story about Gilbert and Blythe drafting a car at 73mph; I came off the back of an 18-wheeler at 50--trucker accelerated and the road pitched up at the same time). I don't think a pack of racers is quite the same. I've pedaled at 200rpm and I've seen Olympian Bobby Lea do a good bit better on rollers. But I think he was maxed out after 30 seconds of effort. Could be wrong. And while there is something to be said for the high cadence work trackies put in, I think that kind of neuromuscular memory gets hazy if you've been racing on the road for a while, as anyone in the Tour is. When I hit 59.8, it was masters road nationals and I was actually in a group on wet roads, really scary, but even with dry roads, I doubt we could have gone much faster. And the pros, even in a pack, would still be limited by wind resistance and probably would have more concern with stability than speed.

Stephane,
I think that's correct. When climbing the Croix de Fer from St. Jean de Maurienne, you go higher than the Glandon on an ever-narrowing road, then when you start to descend, you get a nice long straight before hte the turn to the Glandon. Love to go to France to ride. With you even. ;) Just gotta figure out if my family will love it as much.

I posted some of the art I did at the Tour de France as a Facebook album. You can find 2011 here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150265759889215.340070.652894214&l=0b7157b1c6&type=1

and 2010 here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.413802119214.191614.652894214&l=3c4fecced5&type=1

Hope you all enjoy it.
Nathaniel

Nathaniel, those are absolutely terrific. Thanks for sharing.