Kissena Forum Archive

Training to Race: Faster, Stronger, Awesomer

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Important to remember as a racer, mileage goals should be secondary to smart training for competition. They shouldn't be the goals in and of themselves.
204 hours, 3200 miles, 219 activities.  longest ride was a 6400 mile trip to kazakhstan.  strava tells me that yacks was with me the whole time.
BTW, there's an interesting article on indoor training in the January 2015 issue of Velo. Pages 60, 62

A few interesting nuggets:

Inertial load can reduce your power output.  The smaller amount of inertia, which can be 4-18 times lower, changes the way you pedal.  And those changes can mean a reduction of threshold wattage on the trainer in the range of 30-50 watts for WorldTour riders. If you can't hit your outdoor numbers, it might not be simply psychology. (people prefer heavier flywheels if given a choice)

The change in inertial load also changes the strain on your body.  Training indoors can be more fatiguing for a given time than it is outside.

Make indoor training count.  Vary workouts.  Tim Johnson never does anything for more than 10 minutes when riding inside.

"The sound of a trainer for no reason is like the little angel that dies instead of getting its wings."--Johnson


Yes. I saw this same article...fascinating. Makes want to train outdoors even more. Indoors = sustenance training...the long outdoor rides are the red meat and potatoes
I had a great phone interview last week for a programmer position, despite having to duck out of my job due to the cubicles and then apologize for the back beat in the lounge of the W hotel.
The next step, meet with the technical managers?  Nope.  If you want to work there, you first have to try the product.

I went to my first Soul Cycle class on Friday in NoHo.

It was a dark room, vanilla candles, just me, the instructor, and 60 22YO girls thumping away to the music.  I brought my Mavic CX shoes because the pedals work with either Look Delta clips, or SPD.

The music blared - wear earplugs if you go.  And for 40 minutes, adjusting the tension on the wheel every 10 minutes or so, we dipped our shoulders to the beat right, left, always out of the saddle, speeding up, slowing down, sticking out our bootay, stretching out on the handlebars, pushups off the center, a quick workout with light weights to get our arms above our heads.

This was, from a cyclist's perspective, a solid workout for when you hit that period in your training when you're out of the saddle on climbs.  If you're pressed for time, can't get to the hills, it's awful outside, and it's late Feb or early March when it's out of the saddle time, I say go hit up one of these (relatively expensive) classes. 
Most studios have lockers and showers, bring your shoes with SPD cleats, and bring your earplugs.

Bruce,

I hope that you wore your Kissena colors :)

I definitely thought about flying my colors, but it being January, and my having broken two rear wheels in the last couple of months, I thought it more important not to embarrass the team. 
I think of this as stealth training.
Well, since Bruce came out and said if first.. I've also done a Soul Cycle class in December. And then I tried out Flywheel (I like this better). As Bruce said, I think it's a great workout if you can't/won't go outside to ride. 

SPD or Look delta cleats. But the Look side of the pedal is really loose (in both studios), so SPD might be the best.

And yes, I wear my Kissena kit, to represent! 

Btw - Crank cycling studios do the same thing for only $25 a session.

Today at work, I had two different patients who required the injection of EPO.

Naturally they both got the very best medical care from me...or did they?

muhwaaaahahahahaaaaaa.

see you all at the next group ride punks!





(kidding, obviously. but it does illustrate the reason why I'm sort of horrified that someone like Jared Bunde, a convicted doper, and by extension, in my mind, questionable morals, is in school to be a nurse practitioner.)
Hah -- Bruce, I interviewed at SC a few years ago and had the same experience. I did wear my KCC kit and sweat right through it. The best part was when, during the next interview, they asked if I was able to handle the class.
Indoor trainer advice from Velo News

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/01/training-center/on-the-bike/dont-just-spin-flywheels-11-tips-productive-trainer-time_357994
I did a whole off-season (Jan-Mar) of spin classes a few years back.

I learned:
a) Who Lady Gaga is
b) It's pretty damn hard to pedal standing up with no hands
c) The fight for prime machines is no joke

I prefer my own basement and the Roku (so I can watch Lady Gaga videos)
Please...all of you...keep training for this year we cross swords with Globogym...and I think you all know which newly formed Brooklyn based cycling team I'm alluding to.

image
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......

I've been promising Vlad and others on the club some workouts that specifically work on leg speed. If you aren't doing some kind of leg speed work once a week, then I think you've got a hole in your training plan.

These are RPM based, and unless otherwise noted power and heart rate should be in the Tempo to LT range. If you find yourself going harder, adjust the gearing and/or trainer settings appropriately. Give this one a try:

Time            Gear              Description                                                   Elapsed Time
15                LR x 17          Warm-up                                                      15min

1                  BR x 17          100+ rpm                                                     (repeat this sequence 8x)
1                  LR x 17           45 sec 100 rpm/15 sec max RPM               31min

5                  LR x 17           Spin/recover                                                36min

3                  BR x 17            100+ rpm                                                   39min
1                  LR x 17             spin                                                           40min
2                  BR x 16            100+ rpm                                                   42min
1                  LR x 16             spin                                                           43min
1                  BR x 15            100+ rpm                                                   44min
1                  LR x 15             spin                                                           45min
2                  BR x16             100+ rpm                                                   47min
1                  LR x 16             spin                                                           48min
3                  BR x 17             100+ rpm                                                  51min

9                  LR x whatever          Cool Down                                         60min



Why is it that there is a ton of scientific evidence that resistance training makes you stronger, threshold training makes you faster and legspeed .... oh wait.

#justsayin



Leg speed workouts can improve your pedaling efficiency at a variety of cadences, improve your ability to better handle racing situations that demand rapid changes in cadence, improve your ability to accelerate quickly.



Leg speed workouts can improve your pedaling efficiency at a variety of cadences, improve your ability to better handle racing situations that demand rapid changes in cadence, improve your ability to accelerate quickly.


Science, please.

If you require a scientific journal article to believe that being able
to pedal efficiently at a variety of cadences is important in many
racing situations and the way you get better at that is to practice
pedaling at a variety of cadences, then I am of no help to you.

My thoughts and advice come from having raced for 24 years, locally, nationally and even a bit of international competition. 20 of those years I have been coached by a Level 1 USA Cycling coach who is often called upon to run the regional coaching/education seminars.

Does this mean I have all the answers? Or that my experience is better than yours? Or my coach can beat up your coach? Absolutely not.

You should follow the advice of whomever you trust most.



If you require a scientific journal article to believe that being able
to pedal efficiently at a variety of cadences is important in many
racing situations and the way you get better at that is to practice
pedaling at a variety of cadences, then I am of no help to you.

Does this mean I have all the answers? Or that my experience is better than yours? Or my coach can beat up your coach? Absolutely not.

You should follow the advice of whomever you trust most.


Marc you know ain't dissing your experience. It's a real question though; everyone keeps repeating this like it's mantra and yet, no science to back it up. Makes me suspicious.

FWIW my coach does recommend it, and I give him a hard time over it too. Show me the evidence or learn to live with the eyebrow 

Marc you know ain't dissing your experience. It's a real question though; everyone keeps repeating this like it's mantra and yet, no science to back it up. Makes me suspicious.

FWIW my coach does recommend it, and I give him a hard time over it too. Show me the evidence or learn to live with the eyebrow 
Jules,
Can you point to any studies demonstrating that it doesn't work?  

 Coaches say it does. They must see the improvement with their athletes or they probably wouldn't be recommending it.

I agree, there aren't studies backing it up. Perhaps the problem is that the value thereof is accepted as fact.  Perhaps that the problem is the advantages are hard to easily quantify. Perhaps the problem is that there isn't a new tool to play with.  

Jules,
Can you point to any studies demonstrating that it doesn't work?  


Sorry mate, I'm not buying your challenge to prove a negative. Challenge of proof is on the claimant. "Coaches say it does?" Are you kidding me?
#carryon

Jules,
Can you point to any studies demonstrating that it doesn't work?  


Sorry mate, I'm not buying your challenge to prove a negative. Challenge of proof is on the claimant. "Coaches say it does?" Are you kidding me?
#carryon
Are you doing them or not?

#carryon
I'm doing them. Leg speed is critical to success in races, especially crits. The only time I haven't seen that be the case is when Gavi's off the front. FWIW, knowing (and I mean KNOWING) what 430W feels like at 110 and at 90 is an advantage. I'll get back to you in a couple of months though.
I'm glad someone is suspicious.  

That written, I think it's worth asking how does one accelerate?  Whether it's a car or a motorcycle or a bicycle, it involves a change in rpm.  Either you pick up your pedal speed, or you shift, drop your pedal speed and accelerate to your previous speed.  Unless there's a continuously variable transmission, it's hard to avoid a change in several rpm at the least.  Either you're going from 90rpm to 100-110, or you're going from 90 down 70-80 then back up to 90.  

Mimicking what is necessary in race situations is a fairly proven principle.  So is overloading.  

I guess it would be possible to train people on ergometers and have one group do pedal accelerations and the other group ride continuously, but even the continuous group will be changing their rpm in response to additional load.  Perhaps it's possible to increase the sufficiently slowly that the subject's rpm doesn't change by more than one or two.  After a month of differing training regimens, then asking both groups to do accelerations and see who accelerates faster on a number of accelerations.   
Agree with JP mimicking race conditions, although recovery is a factor with that. It's obvious when you're spinning higher RPM's than you're used to and bouncing off the seat, that one leg is fighting the other and you're throwing away energy. Marc's drills make sense to me from that point of view. But I think Jules is right in that the science on training for muscle recruitment is all over the place — there's good data about a specific task like sprinting or optimal TT cadence, not so much for roadies that have to do both.

If creating muscle memory for efficient pedalling is a desired goal, I'm curious if coaches have drills at the RPM's below as well, or is that still saved for the "speed work" phase — motorpacing (try 900 at 110 Vlad) and such, before tapering for a specific event?

Mark Cavendish: 110 – 125 RPM
Tom Boonen: 115 – 118 RPM
Thor Hushovd: 98 – 110 RPM
Erik Zabel: 108 – 118 RPM
Mario Cipollini: 105 – 118 RPM

My leg speed training tip is to spin out on the downhills when you're in the park. But I would note that my leg speed in a sprint sucks.
Low rpm's and my patella tendon craps the bed...high rpm's = not so much
Low cadence grinds (50-65 rpm) per coaches direction got me really strong before my IT band started expressing its displeasure w said protocol on or about 12/18 resulting in many weeks of no cadence . Slated to resume regular training next week w prescribed rpm's of >90
@Yacks - keep your RPMs in bed to yourself.