Kissena Forum Archive

Training to Race: Faster, Stronger, Awesomer

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I remember there was talk of going to the velodrome to work on sprint trains. Is there any plan to do that sometime soon? It might be fun to do with FBF coming back around. 
I remember there was talk of going to the velodrome to work on sprint trains. Is there any plan to do that sometime soon? It might be fun to do with FBF coming back around. 
Yes.  I was the one talking about it, I think.
Have ot look at the Kissena Velodrome weekend schedule to see where we can fit in such a ride.  And if others can make it.
a decent article on tapering

https://trainright.com/tapering-week-before-race/
WHOOP review

A few people have asked me about the WHOOP band that I have been wearing. I am a bit of a geek for data and have been wearing a WHOOP band for 24/7 since January and wanted to give the club my review of this interesting performance device. 

First, what it does. The band looks like a Fitbit, but has no screen. It simply measures heart rate and heart rate variability (HRV; the time between your heart beats) and provides you with loads of data on their app or website. While it will give you a measure of strain, we already get that with our heart rate monitors and power meters. One benefit of the how it measures strain is that you wear the strap all day so you also get so see how much strain you take on at work, in the gym, and other everyday activities. 

What really sets WHOOP apart is that it measures something that no other device (that I know of) does: Recovery. Specifically, it evaluates your sleep and how rested you are for your next workout each day. I like being able to see the quality of my sleep. Not just how long I slept, but how often did I wake up? Or how much time was in deep sleep, REM sleep, light sleep? I find it useful to see how restful or fitful my sleep was as it does not always match with my impressions in the morning. Each morning the app gives you a metric based on your sleep, your resting heart rate and your heart rate variability while asleep. 

The main recovery metric is presented as a range from 0-100, but is simplified as categorizing your recovery as green, yellow or red. Green means you are well rested and will get maximum benefit from a hard workout (or are ready to perform well at a target event); yellow means you are somewhat fatigued and may want to adjust your training plan based on your goals; and red means you are poorly recovered and would be well served to let your body recover by reducing training load. As the season has progressed I see I am able to do hard workouts for more days in a row and still stay “in the green.” Note that I have found these categories to be pretty informative, but they are best examined as a multi-day trend in the context of your current training plan/racing. If you are in a stage race you might drop into the red, but that wouldn’t mean that you should stop your race (unless you are getting really sick). A couple of times I was surprised to be “In the red” only to discover later that day or week that I was coming down with a cold. The band has helped me become more attuned to my recovery. 

So what is HRV? You can look it up, but essentially our hearts do not beat like a metronome. The sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems (which regulate your body’s “fight or flight” and “rest and relaxation” responses, respectively) directly impact heart rate variability. Somewhat surprisingly (to me) is that the more stressed you are, the less variability between heart beats whereas the more relaxed you are, the more variability between beats. The reason this has athletes using the WHOOP band is not just to check how recovered they are, but because research conducted in the 2000s demonstrated significant performance improvements when athletes trained hard on days with more HR variability (more recovered) and trained easier on days with lower HR variability when compared to control groups that followed a standard training plan. 

I picked up my WHOOP following last Cyclocross season. Last season I used Tim’s polarized 80/20 training plans. I was training fewer days with intensity (although my high intensity days were definitely high intensity) and riding more days at endurance pace. Not only did I find myself as fit if not fitter than prior CX seasons, but I was able to race from September through December (my last race was on New Years Eve) without getting burned out, which had been a problem in the past. This got me to pay closer attention to recovery on the bike (endurance and active recovery) and off the bike (yoga, massage, etc). The WHOOP strap helps me tweak my training plan so that I feel fresher when I want to and so that I can strike a better work/racing/family balance. One interesting thing is that you can record things you do before sleep and see what impact they have on sleep. For example, the app will give you feedback how (if at all) drinking in the evening or having caffeine late in the day impacts your recovery.

So, I recommend the strap if you think any of the above data would be useful to you. A couple of details. First, its a subscription service. Generally you buy the band for $180 and get a 6 month subscription (or $120 for 4 months) and then afterwards pay a monthly fee ranging from $18-30 depending on whether you pay month by month or make a year commitment. Is it worth the money? I think of it similar to a power meter. We can train and race and get stronger without one, but having the data can help us better understand our bodies and get te most our of training. 

One thing I have to bring up is that I have my questions about the reliability of HRV taken by itself. I like that WHOOP bases their recovery metric on several pieces of data as I think HRV data tends to fluctuate during the course of your sleep (I warned you that I am a geek for data). A few years back I tried out another app to record HRV and found I would get different results even when I measured them right after each other. It is my impression that HRV is likely to change based on when it is taken. The differences may no be huge, but I bet they are large enough to that it wouldn’t make sense to make detentions on that number alone. Therefore, its most useful when looked at with other data and as part of a several day trend in the data. There is a VeloNews podcast in which they gush about the WHOOP and interview Mountain Bike World Champion Katie Courtney, who uses WHOOP and makes a similar recommendation. Jeremy Powers also gave an interesting podcast interview recently on the WHOOP podcast. He was using it last year when he was coming back from serious medical issues.

If you decide you want to purchase a WHOOP, you can use the following link and get $30 dollars off your purchase. Full disclosure, I get a free month if you sign up with my code. https://www.talkable.com/x/EjkyAI

Here are a couple of iPhone screenshots:


Thanks for the detailed review, PG. I've been following the news on HRV for a while now - I know there are some old fashioned chest strap HRM's that claim to measure it but it's quite difficult to get a lot of information. I think I asked @TimCusick
 a while back what device(s) he liked.

I really hate the subscription model. It's a nice HRM. They should sell it and be done with it.

So my main act of protest is to watch my HR variability in the macro - how quickly it climbs and falls in response to work, day over day and week over week.

As for alcohol & sleep - well, shucks. None and as much as you can are good for training ;)
Listening to the Cyclingnews Podcast on MSR (I know, I'm behind) there was a great quote Matej Mohoric reminded me of,

"You never lose. You either win or you lean something."

Midway through the racing season the folks interested in results should be asking themselves this question on a race-by-race basis and as you take stock of your season thus far.

It is super easy to get lost in the "pedal harder" hamster wheel of training and forget that you're in school, too.
Just saw a talk by a Yaley Laurie Santos who has a super popular course on happiness (apparently depressed students are an epidemic). One hilarious example she used was a bunch of podium pics with first place happy, second placed bummed, third place happy. Third place was happy they beat out fourth, second place was pissed they got beaten out of first. So, best to do what Jules did when he won Battenkill, train like a MF and then execute on a door-closer strategy for max ROI and avoid “first loser syndrome”.
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/06/yale-happiness-class/592477/

^subject to rule 17, sub paragraph b "wherein any podium you can carry a kid onto is a victory better than first..."


The following Velonews Fast Talk podcast episode is with a listen. While the Fast Talk podcasts can often contain good information, it can often get a little geeky with discussions of physiological markers and the like. There is much more to successful racing than who is the strongest. 

the linked podcast is all about when to save and when to expend energy during a race. A great overview of you are new to the sport and a good reminder for the more experienced. Some good discussion related to where you want to be in a pack at different points in the race and when you want to be expending energy. 

If you want to learn more, talk to the more seasoned riders like JP, Malcolmson and others as they are often happy to discuss further. 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/velonews-podcasts/id1151541159?i=1000444871181
GCN on the whoop

https://youtu.be/XzQJzDzXBG4
https://youtu.be/8ZBAoKh89Oc
I thought you guys might get a good laugh out of my new "efficiency" workout.

36 minutes wheels down to wheels up with a 4:30 warmup

https://www.strava.com/activities/2621798134


^ Can you please GoPro all the awesome skids Jules?
^ Can you please GoPro all the awesome skids Jules?

For me, sometimes completing a challenging workout is the finish line, and sometimes it's getting back close to fitness of my younger self. Yesterday and today I put together some solid work and dug deep to hurt myself in a good way.

After a couple of challenging years of detraining today was an arms in the air day for sure.

So for those of you clawing and scrapping your way toward your goals, a hearty salute.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/my-favourite-training-session/

Worth a read
awesome. amazing in this world of super specificity and data, most pros just go out and ride long and hard. let's go ride bikes!
@eloy I got those same vibes from that article and I dig that. For the most part the human body cannot define what each stress is. That's why often times the best work out is the simplest and the most fun. 
eloy said:
awesome. amazing in this world of super specificity and data, most pros just go out and ride long and hard. let's go ride bikes!
Huge #YMMV on this one. It is true most pros do nothing like the specificity amateurs do but they also average 200-300% of the volume.

The reason amateurs are often given the big doses of intensity is to raise the workload in an otherwise paltry volume of training.

1 hour at threshold is equivalent to a much longer ride at much lower intensities.

Figure out what twenty to thirty hours of endurance is when translated to 8-12 hours and bring your asbestos pants!
While i agree with Jules, i think its still important for even amateurs to have FUN
While i agree with Jules, i think its still important for even amateurs to have FUN
For sure! Didn't mean to imply otherwise ;)
Jules said:

Figure out what twenty to thirty hours of endurance is when translated to 8-12 hours and bring your asbestos pants!
This is where powermeters combined with a good interpretive program really make a difference.

Training Stress Score, aka TSS, is a great way to compare efforts.  A solid week of training is 600+ TSS; try to fit that into 8-12 hours or less.  

Also of note, I just finished the book Good To Go, which takes a careful look at recovery modalities.  TL/DR, most things people do to recover is probably more for your mind than your body, so skip the expensive vitamins and the red wine baths.

I'm not sure if this is a public post or just for TR subscribers, but they've added some really interesting interactive features to their training plans. Aparently, it caters their standard plans for your planned A, B and C races.  

From TrainerRoad: https://forum.trainerroad.com/t/introducing-plan-builder/25201

You now have the ability to build a custom plan leading up to your goal event with Plan Builder. This has been added to Early Access and is ready for beta testing!

Why Plan Builder?

Cyclists rarely have a single event they are working towards, and the amount of time to their goal event varies widely from person to person. Training plans exist for just about every cycling discipline, but only account for the ideal scenario in which a single goal event is targeted in the future. Until now, plans had to be pieced together for each event.

Plan Builder allows you to build out a custom plan leading up to your goal event(s). It takes into consideration the unique demands of your goal event, how much training stress you can tolerate, and what your schedule is like when building your plan. The resulting plan will automatically be applied to your calendar so you can start training! Note: Plan Builder is currently only available on the website, but is being added to our desktop apps now.

0520PM

Enabling Plan Builder

You can enable Plan Builder access by visiting https://www.trainerroad.com/profile/early-access 722. From here, select “Enabled” for the Plan Builder feature, and you are all set! You can turn off Plan Builder as well, and we encourage you to share any feedback you have about the new feature!

How it Works

Launching Plan Builder 245 will walk you through a series of questions needed to build your plan. These questions include how much time you’ve been training recently, what volume plan you’d like, and your experience level.

You’ll then enter any goal events for the year, pick your training days, and check out your plan. Your custom plan is designed to make you as fit as possible for your goal event(s), and is easily added to your calendar so you can start training!

I am going to try and start organizing a weekly training session, which for now will be inside on your turbo. In the spring/warmer weather we can bring this outside, and vibe as group.

Tomorrow, if anyone wants a tasty workout:
Warmup/Cool Down what you need
5x9mins (1min @100% FTP 95rpm 7min @90%FTP 80-85rpm 1min @100% FTP 95rpm) rest 3mins at 50%FTP All without ERG, really lets you feel the workout

What's the point of this now? Simulate some good ole climbing. The lower cadence lets you really focus in on the rhythm of the "climb," while the faster stuff simulates the start and end of the "climb." Now none of this purely based in science (almost entirely anecdotally in what work for me from physiological standpoint) but it will help build the foundation in which you can start bring outside. 

If you don't have the time you can remove some of the intervals as well.



Anyone interested in taking on the Festive 500 this year? I messed up and rode a super enjoyable/fun 3.5 hours today and then realized the ride didn’t even count/ matter/ was a total complete waste of time. 

This could be a fun jump start to the New Year! Forget your friends, family, and loved ones and go ride your bike! 

https://strava.app.link/8hprED9sF2
more evidence that cooler rooms for sleeping is better.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/12/sleep-cold/604111/
I haven't been paying much attention to my Whoop over the past month or so, but I just noticed that Whoop generated an interesting annual review report for me as I have been using it since late January of 2019. Thought I would share in case others like pretty graphs or might like to see what data can be gleaned from a Whoop Strap.

A couple of takeaways about me:
- I sleep more and recover better than the average member (but not the elite athletes)
- I am most recovered on Tues and Wed (good day for hard workouts!)
- caffeine use has a worse impact than alcohol use on my sleep and recovery
- apparently screen use improves my recovery
- sharing a bed improves my recovery

I take the last three conclusions with a grain of salt (correlation does not indicate causation) since it could be interpreted to mean that if I wasn't married I should sleep with someone and play games on my iPhone before bed to increase recovery. LOL

I can see in the training behavior chart where I was recovering from injury (and therefore not training optimally) or where I was climbing the alps with Jeff and Anthony (and therefore overtraining). 



I can see in the training behavior chart where I was recovering from injury (and therefore not training optimally) or where I was climbing the alps with Jeff and Anthony (and therefore overtraining). 


I tried looking at your document.  The download didn't work.

btw, here's an divergent review of the Whoop  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfthTwzcoGU
Yeah, I don't think the WHOOP band is for curmudgeons ;-)

But seriously, it offers some interesting data, but its not crucial to performing well. As the first adopted in the club I may come off as defending the strap, but just want to help others make a educated decision. In my onion the strap is most useful for tracking the length and quality of your sleep, the intensity of your strain (especially strain that isn't on the bike and already tracked by a power meter), and bringing more attention to how recovered you are. Personally I have found it helpful in improving my sleep and helping me pay more attention to recovery. I DO NOT check how well rested I am the morning of a race. Sometimes the HRV varies or I sleep badly and I don't want being in the red to mess with my head.  

I don't fully trust the HRV data. Seems too vary a little too wildly for my tastes. Same thing happens if you look at non-averaged power meter data on a second by second basis. So the HRV and RHR data are best used to gauge recovery over time. If you get a couple of days in a row in the red it could just be that you are doing a hard training block or that you are starting to get sick. If you are in the green then you can feel more confident that this is the day to do those hard intervals. HRV data is is not easily interpreted as seen in this following article.

So, if you are interested in measuring off the bike train and want to be more attuned to recovery, it can be a useful tool, but if you feel like you have those dialed, then save your money.

Here is that pdf again. If you still can't download it, try it here.


I had a similar result around screen use in bed. Perhaps theres some benefit to being motionless and winding down for a time in bed before actually sleeping. Some devices are lit differently than others...theres an ongoing iPhone 'blue-light' and its negative effect on sleep discussion going on atm


Also, i've really been overreaching (esp Q4 of 2019) ....something im looking to improve in 2020. I assume this is a function of sleep, which I know (because of the whoop) that i'm not getting enough.