Training to Race: Faster, Stronger, Awesomer

Jan 06, 2020 at 01:04 AM

They put quite a bit of R&D into how and when HRV is measured. Apparently the HRV value is calculated during the end of your last deep sleep state of every night. From what i understand this is the time where your body is most relaxed, meaning you are in a near-dead state of sleep and your body isn't using any resources for digestion, recovery, etc.

mugwump

Jan 08, 2020 at 12:27 AM

evening exercise and sleep.

https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/toolbox/evening-exercise-and-sleep-quality-cycling-training-recovery/

JohnOlsson

Jan 08, 2020 at 02:23 AM

Bikes

There goes the neighborhood

DotanGreenvald

Jan 08, 2020 at 02:30 AM

Dude, what happens in Iraq, and what about to happen in Iraq is not remotely funny

RobertPeras

Jan 08, 2020 at 02:38 AM

I agree @DotanGreenvald. Thousands of my brothers and sisters will be saying good bye to their families over the next few days to fight an ugly war and defend our freedom.

JohnOlsson

Jan 08, 2020 at 02:48 AM

True...agreed that was insensitive of me. Comment edited

eloy

Jan 08, 2020 at 11:07 AM

PatrickGrehan said:

Yeah, I don't think the WHOOP band is for curmudgeons ;-)

But seriously, it offers some interesting data, but its not crucial to performing well. As the first adopted in the club I may come off as defending the strap, but just want to help others make a educated decision. In my onion the strap is most useful for tracking the length and quality of your sleep, the intensity of your strain (especially strain that isn't on the bike and already tracked by a power meter), and bringing more attention to how recovered you are. Personally I have found it helpful in improving my sleep and helping me pay more attention to recovery. I DO NOT check how well rested I am the morning of a race. Sometimes the HRV varies or I sleep badly and I don't want being in the red to mess with my head.

I don't fully trust the HRV data. Seems too vary a little too wildly for my tastes. Same thing happens if you look at non-averaged power meter data on a second by second basis. So the HRV and RHR data are best used to gauge recovery over time. If you get a couple of days in a row in the red it could just be that you are doing a hard training block or that you are starting to get sick. If you are in the green then you can feel more confident that this is the day to do those hard intervals. HRV data is is not easily interpreted as seen in this following article.

So, if you are interested in measuring off the bike train and want to be more attuned to recovery, it can be a useful tool, but if you feel like you have those dialed, then save your money.

Here is that pdf again. If you still can't download it, try it here.

Does the whoop have community features, like the "clubs" that have been mentioned?

does the app have challenges?

DanSztanga

Jan 08, 2020 at 05:28 PM

mugwump said:

evening exercise and sleep.

https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/toolbox/evening-exercise-and-sleep-quality-cycling-training-recovery/

Well that's good news. I'm certainly not great at waking up at 5:30am and I'm sure my neighbors would hate me for trying to ride a trainer that early.

Kevin Man

Jan 08, 2020 at 10:10 PM

@eloy
@JohnOlsson

do you guys have Whoop?
I made a kissena whoop team. sent me your username!

mugwump

Jan 10, 2020 at 05:55 PM

Since winter time is trainer time, a reminder that the cooler you can keep your body when riding inside, the harder you can ride.

I got one of these. (I had a search on eBay and was patient) it works really well:
https://www.arcticheatusa.com/cooling-vest.html

But this one looks potentially better:
https://www.coolture.net/product-page/turbocool-vest

What I like about the latter is that it potentially takes up less space in the freezer and is easier to work with. When I get mine into service, it's both a space hog and I need to use a plastic bag or two to ensure that the vest doesn't freeze to itself.

AndrewJohnson

Jan 31, 2020 at 10:32 PM

This year I decided that I wanted to go back to what I did a few years ago, which is log a good amount of base miles/saddle time during the winter. I am not the kind of guy who can ride the indoor trainer for just miles/time. For me the indoor trainer/rollers are for interval training, aka my structured workouts. I can concentrate on them and get them done and not get bored.

Yes I tried Zwift and it didn't help with the boredom of just doing mileage. I do have a tv in front of the bike, and I can pretty much watch whatever I want but if I'm just doing miles I still can't just sit there past 20 minutes.

So knowing that about myself, I try to get out as much as I can in the winter. Last week I was out riding in 16 degrees F plus wind chill. It takes good preparation, and awareness but it can be done.

I am happy to say that so far, January has been a good month. I've been able to log 702 miles or 48 hours of saddle time. As a result, I'm starting to feel better, like I'm getting a good base that I can build upon to keep me competitive all racing season. Yes I'll have peaks and valleys but I think this will prepare me to a greater extent for the upcoming season. I always find I ride better with a good base during the winter. Last year it rained a lot on the weekends so I missed out on building a good base, and I felt it in my racing. This year I hope to keep this trend up into early March. Let's see...

- Andrew

eloy

Feb 01, 2020 at 03:45 AM

solid!

Jules

Feb 01, 2020 at 02:43 PM

50 hours is a burly month. If you like riding in the cold, I know a guy...

AndrewJohnson

Feb 02, 2020 at 01:22 AM

Never said I liked the cold. Just a necessary evil to get to my goals...

DiegoSanchez

Feb 03, 2020 at 07:04 PM

This is a good article explaining very well and when and why Power/Weight ratio matters.

For a super-light rider as myself with a depressing ftp (20 min * 0.95) of 211watts it paints a grim picture of me being able to perform well in road races.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/training/the-importance-of-power-to-weight-and-how-to-improve-yours-164589

Gotta keep training!

eloy

Feb 03, 2020 at 07:30 PM

Diego, way more important than any FTP or Power: BELIEVE.

Stop this negative self talk. You are a hardcore cyclist, that would kill in road races.

Let's go race bikes.

mugwump

Feb 03, 2020 at 07:56 PM

@DiegoSanchez

Everyone starts somewhere. We know you can ride all day. It's just adapting to ride at shorter durations. You'll be there. Maybe not today or tomorrow. But, my guess is, pretty soon.

ShaneMurphy

Feb 03, 2020 at 09:18 PM

@DiegoSanchez I'm in same boat as you,anytime you wanna do some laps or practice of any kind let me know,we can help build eachother and smash some cat 5 races haha

cpulvidente

Feb 03, 2020 at 09:26 PM

FTP and w/kg is such a small piece of racing. If you have a high race IQ you can get by with so much less. Realistically, weight makes a difference in long climbs, but how many races by us are like that?

I think Cam Wurf, fastest Ironman bike split, said something along the lines of don't focus on the number but try to ride the bike fast.

RobertMullen

Feb 04, 2020 at 12:11 AM

Haha Diego this is an insane thing to say about yourself 24hrs after you rode 125 miles/ 8000+ft without getting dropped at all.

David Yang

Feb 04, 2020 at 12:22 AM

Bike racing is just as much about efficiency and cleverness and skill and luck especially at the amateur entry levels. I've seen some strong riders have a harder time adjusting earlier on because brute force was their crutch and they didn't learn efficiency and cleverness (or even pack riding skills) until they kept losing races to weaker, smarter racers. Like regardless of how strong you are, sitting in the wind for 1hr+ because you're terrible at drafting and constantly yo-yoing around outside of the pack, then burning matches all race attempting ill advised breaks from the front (because you're, for some dumb reason, at the front pulling the field) with no sense of timing will cause you to exhaust yourself and lose to the riders and teams doing the exact opposite.

"Strong like bull, dumb like tractor."

David Yang

Feb 04, 2020 at 12:51 AM

(With all that said, you should still work on your fitness! You want to be in the "strong/smart quadrant" unlike myself, where I've been stuck in the far corner of the "weak/tractor" section.)

Kevin Man

Feb 04, 2020 at 03:22 AM

Just remember to always have fun.

Everyone who joins the club... We're basically bike addicts, we live and breath cycling, over looking our power pr everyday, doing unnecessary marginal gains.

Comparing to other is ok, but you're really racing against your self. Be the best you can be. Plus you are riding 100+ miles ride already, you're already winning in my book. I wouldn't dare to do such feat!

Disclaimer: I am a professional flat road riders specializing in wheel sucking who steer clear of any work and gradients above 1%

DiegoSanchez

Feb 04, 2020 at 04:15 PM

Thanks all for your comments.

I will keep training and getting the most fun out of riding with y'all #pumkinHeads

Jules

Feb 04, 2020 at 05:28 PM

Train smart, as consistently as you can. The power will come with time. Until them race with your head.

JohnOlsson

Feb 11, 2020 at 05:50 PM

Development Tip #2
Strength Training throughout the Year

It is generally accepted that Strength Training can help in: Overcoming Imbalances (& Reduce liklihood of Injury); Improving Power Transfer (from gym to bike), & Improving Bone Density. Now I wont get into the biological bits (since i'm no expert) but there seems to be a benefit to maintaining specific numbers at the gym. So regardless of category, age, or rider discipline...you WILLL BENEFIT FROM REGULAR, CONSISTENT, STRENGTH TRAINING!

This calculator inspired me to get a gym membership after taking a 2-year hiatus: https://www.trainerroad.com/strength-training-calculator

If you dont want to join a gym...heres an option: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-best-strength-exercises-for-cyclists/

Also, our coaching partner Velocious has a really great functional strength training plan that I find works wonders after the road season.

If you choose to accept this challenge (ref strength training calculator), simply enter your current weight, sex, and choose the type of cyclist you are, or strive to be. I intend to get to these numbers and maintain them throughout the year. You might want to consider consulting a personal trainer (or youtube) to ensure you have adequate range of motion and technique before trying weight work.

I encourage you all to join me!

John O
Development

RobertPeras

Feb 11, 2020 at 06:26 PM

@JohnOlsson this is interesting. I put my numbers in and I am waaaaaaay above every category. Am I looking at this this wrong way? Or could it be that this is saying not to go heavy at all? Still, doing 130 lb deadlifts 5 times is barely a warmup for me (I am not trying to brag - just giving an example) Also, what’s with the weak bench press? 90 lbs in sets of 5? I know cyclists typically have tiny arms, but come on - we need something for the ladies to grab 🤪.

JohnOlsson

Feb 11, 2020 at 06:28 PM

You likely are experiencing some muscle hypertrophy, which sounds scary...but it actually means your muscles are growing in size! I think that's beneficial to a certain point at which you become a cycling juggernaut that isn't able to move (or be as aero) as needed in our sport. Maybe take a week, or month off? or increase reps, while lowering weight? Not an expert...but couldn't you get the same benefit by increasing reps, while lowering weight?

cpulvidente

Feb 11, 2020 at 07:27 PM

When you increase reps with lower weight you actually increase muscle hypertrophy. The muscle get bigger bc the fibers fatigue and need to recruit more and stuff (I really don't know the full science behind it but it's more or less that.)

The trainer road calculator is for maintaining strength. For example, there's no reason a climber needs to bulk up and push heavy heavy weight. Rather it's more for a range of motion and lengthing of shortened muscles. The TRs guys have a ton of poddy's about this.

Also psa don't forget to periodize strength like you would with any on the bike training. Ie base build peak, all have different lifts and weights and speeds and fun. This is often is over looked.

Kevin Man

Feb 11, 2020 at 07:52 PM

Easy way to put it

Pure strength training is around 1-5reps no pump feels fucking heavy
Hypertrophy is about 8-15reps Aka feel the pump

This is why people sometime superset in the gym.

For all athlete core is the most important... Not vanity crunches.

@RobertPeras I wouldn't fuzz about it if you can do more than prescribe. Youre a better overall human beings with it. Unless youre trying to go pro and putting 30 hours week, your body will automatically adjust for whats best.

BUT doing too much gym can hinder your bike training, you might not be able to hit your hard days hard enough since that additional stress probly wouldn't make you a faster cyclist.