May 10, 2013 at 06:57 PM
I am happy to do final leadout duties.I may be the best person for that. Why don't we shoot for that instead?
L&C Cup
May 10, 2013 at 07:22 PM
Alright, gents. I'm invoking Rule #5 and am in for the Cat 5 race.
@mperlberg-- I'll take the open volunteer slot, which is good since I didn't pre-reg'.
May 11, 2013 at 12:31 AM
a BiG ShoutOut 2Charlie i, racer, organizer, promoter, mentor to ALL nycRacers!!!!! THANKs Charlie for your wisdom(s) -h;-)
"FROM: Lucarelli & Castaldi Cup
-------------------------------------------------
Cat 4 riders racing at tomorrow's Lucarelli & Castaldi Cup race:
At the last Lucarelli & Castaldi Cup race we had a crash in the final sprint of the Cat 4 race. I witnessed the crash firsthand and I am convinced it happened because of over-aggressive riders taking too many risks to win a local, friendly competition bicycle race. While accidents can and will happen, riding recklessly puts yourself and others in serious danger.
Please keep the following in mind if tomorrow’s race comes down to a sprint:
1. Bicycle racing is NOT running or triathlon. It is not about “personal best”. There are 8 places in tomorrow’s race, the top 10 get points for the overall competition. So 11th place is the same as last – you didn’t place. The point is if you are not in the top 20 or so you should not be sprinting. You should be rolling in with the field. You did your best, maybe it wasn’t your day. Want to know the best thing about NYC bike racing? You get to do it all over again in 24-72 hours! Maybe you are racing on Sunday. Try again. Maybe you are racing at Floyd Bennett on Tuesday. Try to place there. Do you race at the Kissena Velodrome? Try to place there on Wednesday. Before you know it, the weekend is here already. Repeat the same pattern for the next 4 months.
2. Keep your head up in the final sprint! I was shocked to see riders sprinting with their heads down. If you have your head down you will drift and not hold a straight line. That causes crashes.
3. On that note – keep a straight line. USAC rules require racers to hold a straight line in the final 200 meters. Once you have chosen a line in the final 200 meters that’s the line you have committed to. Don’t make sudden, abrupt changes to your line – that causes crashes.
4. Don’t go through gaps that don’t exist. Picture this: You’re in the final 200 meters. You are feeling super strong but you are “boxed in”. You see a small gap between the 2 riders in front of you. If you can just get through that gap you might place. What do you do? You use those things on the front of your bars – the brakes! Don’t go through that gap. Don’t force a “hole” to open up. This is not the World Championships. This is not your “one chance” to win the biggest race of your life. You don’t know if that gap will close up when you are halfway through. You might crash. You might crash other riders. You might cause all of Prospect Park racing to disappear because the Park officials say “that’s it – this is too dangerous, no more racing”. What you do is think about point # 1 – you can race again in 24-72 hours. Man up – back off.
5. If it starts to get tight and the rider next to you “bumps” your bars (very rarely done on purpose), don’t PANIC. Stay calm, don’t tense up, you may move slightly left or right. Go with it. Don’t fight it. It will all be over in a second or two. If you tense up and fight the “bump” you will crash.
Guys – I have 35 years of experience in this sport. I’m not just the promoter – I was a top rider when I was younger. For more info on my racing career go to this link:
http://customcyclewear.com/charlieissendorf.htm
Again, this is a local, friendly competition bike race. Race hard. Be safe.
I will see you all tomorrow!
Charlie Issendorf
Race Director
Kissena Cycling Club"
-------------------------------------------------
"FROM: Lucarelli & Castaldi Cup
-------------------------------------------------
Cat 4 riders racing at tomorrow's Lucarelli & Castaldi Cup race:
At the last Lucarelli & Castaldi Cup race we had a crash in the final sprint of the Cat 4 race. I witnessed the crash firsthand and I am convinced it happened because of over-aggressive riders taking too many risks to win a local, friendly competition bicycle race. While accidents can and will happen, riding recklessly puts yourself and others in serious danger.
Please keep the following in mind if tomorrow’s race comes down to a sprint:
1. Bicycle racing is NOT running or triathlon. It is not about “personal best”. There are 8 places in tomorrow’s race, the top 10 get points for the overall competition. So 11th place is the same as last – you didn’t place. The point is if you are not in the top 20 or so you should not be sprinting. You should be rolling in with the field. You did your best, maybe it wasn’t your day. Want to know the best thing about NYC bike racing? You get to do it all over again in 24-72 hours! Maybe you are racing on Sunday. Try again. Maybe you are racing at Floyd Bennett on Tuesday. Try to place there. Do you race at the Kissena Velodrome? Try to place there on Wednesday. Before you know it, the weekend is here already. Repeat the same pattern for the next 4 months.
2. Keep your head up in the final sprint! I was shocked to see riders sprinting with their heads down. If you have your head down you will drift and not hold a straight line. That causes crashes.
3. On that note – keep a straight line. USAC rules require racers to hold a straight line in the final 200 meters. Once you have chosen a line in the final 200 meters that’s the line you have committed to. Don’t make sudden, abrupt changes to your line – that causes crashes.
4. Don’t go through gaps that don’t exist. Picture this: You’re in the final 200 meters. You are feeling super strong but you are “boxed in”. You see a small gap between the 2 riders in front of you. If you can just get through that gap you might place. What do you do? You use those things on the front of your bars – the brakes! Don’t go through that gap. Don’t force a “hole” to open up. This is not the World Championships. This is not your “one chance” to win the biggest race of your life. You don’t know if that gap will close up when you are halfway through. You might crash. You might crash other riders. You might cause all of Prospect Park racing to disappear because the Park officials say “that’s it – this is too dangerous, no more racing”. What you do is think about point # 1 – you can race again in 24-72 hours. Man up – back off.
5. If it starts to get tight and the rider next to you “bumps” your bars (very rarely done on purpose), don’t PANIC. Stay calm, don’t tense up, you may move slightly left or right. Go with it. Don’t fight it. It will all be over in a second or two. If you tense up and fight the “bump” you will crash.
Guys – I have 35 years of experience in this sport. I’m not just the promoter – I was a top rider when I was younger. For more info on my racing career go to this link:
http://customcyclewear.com/charlieissendorf.htm
Again, this is a local, friendly competition bike race. Race hard. Be safe.
I will see you all tomorrow!
Charlie Issendorf
Race Director
Kissena Cycling Club"
-------------------------------------------------
May 11, 2013 at 12:39 AM
Yeah. That was much needed.
But it won't matter to me bc I'm launching a solo attack up the hill the first lap and staying away FTW.
But it won't matter to me bc I'm launching a solo attack up the hill the first lap and staying away FTW.
May 11, 2013 at 12:48 AM
ok cat4's
i'm down with Bertucco' s plan &Reiners suggestions:
a) lead out andy daSilva for sprints - MUST defend green Jersey! andy outline plan b4 race!
b) yacks attacks for KOM( chris bring along/call out who ever you need otherwise your on your own)
c) counter attacks for a Break: Whitey, Owens, Roazen, Condon...let us know how/when to help.
d) if final bunch Sprint ALL in at top of hill on right to move-up &lead out/escort Duncan McKay to line along right side past Temple. note: i will try to be near front for a shot at some GreyJersey points @the line.
-h out...see you n morning!;-)
i'm down with Bertucco' s plan &Reiners suggestions:
a) lead out andy daSilva for sprints - MUST defend green Jersey! andy outline plan b4 race!
b) yacks attacks for KOM( chris bring along/call out who ever you need otherwise your on your own)
c) counter attacks for a Break: Whitey, Owens, Roazen, Condon...let us know how/when to help.
d) if final bunch Sprint ALL in at top of hill on right to move-up &lead out/escort Duncan McKay to line along right side past Temple. note: i will try to be near front for a shot at some GreyJersey points @the line.
-h out...see you n morning!;-)
May 11, 2013 at 01:44 PM
Harry takes 3rd and possibly the Silver Jersey!
(another stupid crash & ambulance thanks to guys sprinting for 14th in the 4's)
Ryan cleans up a bunch of KOM's with Full Pro Support from Ragot & Johnny Wrongway
Full race report in a bit but overall the 4's NEED TO LEARN HOW TO COUNTER DAMMIT
Waiting until the attack is back safely in the bunch, taking a 30 second breather and then heading out again alone WILL NOT CUT THE MUSTARD... nor will it get you in a winning break.
Enjoy the following and imagine it's a rant about COUNTERING BREAKS LIKE MEN NOT MICE
May 11, 2013 at 02:08 PM
Congrats Harry. Nice work.
@Jules I agree. We have a plan for green point sprints, a loose plan for the final sprint but nothing for attacks and counters. I'll volunteer to be on that squad. Lets get organized for next time.
May 11, 2013 at 02:10 PM
Ryan raced really well and got 5 KOM points. Waiting for confirmation but hoping that puts him in the polkas.
On the first KOM ryan was up the road in a small group. Ragot John and I were lurking at the front of the bunch ready to assist should they get caught but Ryan's group held the gap.
On the next downhill I did my typical roll off the front maneuver and was joined by a BVF (or maybe I followed him - can't quite remember) Neil Bezdek, and Steven Dio. We started motoring and dropped the BVF guy. I started hurting badly but hung in ok. It seemed for some reason my pulls were weak even though I was putting out mega watts.
After 1.5 laps out front, we were caught on the downhill. The road felt extra bumpy and soon I realized I had a puncture and pulled out. Real bummer - I had great legs. I'm guessing it was a slow leak during the break and that is what was slowing me down. I did pick up 2 green jersey points.
Watching from the side I saw JP get into a great split. JP can comment but it seems the group attacked each other and JP was absorbed by the bunch pretty late in the race (maybe on the last lap?)
Kudos for Ryan - I didn't get to see the KOM effort but I did see the boys patrolling the front to make it happen.
May 11, 2013 at 02:19 PM
Really fun day of racing and post race Konditori-ing.
Mike and Vlad had bad luck with flats and we missed them. JP was very active and in the right move at the end, though it didn't quite work out. I'll let him report on his race.
I was shepherded all day by Ragot with eyes on KOM, which was awesome. Dude knows how to put you where you need to be. On the first KOM lap I got into a move with Neil Bezdek, Evan Murphy (I think, I'm still learning who everyone is in this field) Ricky Lowe (again, I think), and one other guy, can't recall. Ricky let a big gap open up after the chute and I had to come around him and close. Ricky got dropped. Neil and Evan were serious about a move and just hammering. I was hurting but not going to get dropped before the KOM. They told me to sit on the back for a bit but "stay with us." The field was closing pretty quick - no one was gonna let those two up the road for very long - but we had enough of a gap to stay away for the KOM. I took off near the top and I heard Neil behind me shouting "Go! Beat us!" I thought they were taking a piss and were about to blow by me any moment, but they didn't. I think they were sort of like "Meh, let the local boy have it, we'll be at some pro race next week" and were actually just being genuinely encouraging.
The second KOM I had a great mini-train that started with John M. and then Ragot. We started it a little early but it was fast enough that we gapped the filed. Two came along. Stalin Q was on my wheel when Ragot pulled off his lead out near the top where it flattens out. I took off, but Stalin got around me at the end.
According to our calculations, it should be enough to grab the dots, but I'll want to see the official results before I say that for sure.
Such an amazing thing to have Ragot taking care of me all day, and then John too at the end really giving it his all even though I know he was hurting. Assuming we got it, its a team victory for sure! Thanks homies
May 11, 2013 at 02:47 PM
@jules 
Today was my first race in the 4s. I was happy just finishing with the pack, haha. I still have a ton to learn but hopefully I'll be more present in moves over the next few races.
Today was my first race in the 4s. I was happy just finishing with the pack, haha. I still have a ton to learn but hopefully I'll be more present in moves over the next few races.
May 11, 2013 at 02:48 PM
No worries Wes, glad you had fun and stayed upright 
May 11, 2013 at 02:58 PM
Any word on le 5s?
May 11, 2013 at 03:03 PM
@Wes, was it a case of you being happy to finish in the field in your first 4s race because you were physically at or near your limits? Or did you go in with the plan of riding more conservatively in your first 4 race?
May 11, 2013 at 03:06 PM
I wanted to ride more conservatively today to get a feel for everything.Marc Bertucco said:
@Wes, was it a case of you being happy to finish in the field in your first 4s race because you were physically at or near your limits? Or did you go in with the plan of riding more conservatively in your first 4 race?
May 11, 2013 at 04:31 PM
May 11, 2013 at 05:12 PM
@aaron , flats are rotten luck but there will be more races
May 11, 2013 at 06:48 PM
11may2013
L&C_03, cat4, wet, 60F, (9)laps/31mi
race report:
flatted on 2nd warm-up lap(rear wheel, tubular), Jules' good guidance suggested that borrow a tire from someone @start/finish, TA DA! capt. DanRaniers to rescue!:-)
spoke to McKay before roll-out about finish &i would patrol left side to, a) block attack, &b) capture a point or 2 for greyJersey;
per Jules(our road capt ofDay) KCC group's plan to protect GreenJersey &'attack, attack. attack,'
i think i did a bit of work at top of the park once or twice, but majority &serious work/efforts were clearly being done by JimNelson, Jules, Owens, Phillip, Craig, Duncan, JeffCondon &WesTillman(in his 1st cat4 race was a champ repeatedly off the front!),
Jules may not be pleased by timing and commitment of "attacks', but i must say that Kissenas were clearly patrolling the front and keeping the race pace up(hb-view from caboose) in a much more organized fashion than previous (2)L&C Races this season;
the leadouts: (Jim&Jim&Jim, Whitey, Jules, Jeff, Owens, etc) for power sprinters (Yacks&DaSilva at 2ea. KOMs&greenJersey sprints, were impressive &i was stunned to witness (2) of JimNelson's full bore draining efforts if not ALL(4)...chapeau Jim!
i utilized each of the KOMs&Sprints to move up with goal of a counter attack, IF? i had the juice, but was not particularly useful, until the late laps @>4 togo, as i felt stronger and a sense that may actually finish the race,
bellLap: back to mid-Pack, marked greyJersey, (3)Jordans&a RideBklyn, right side from top of hill to temple, played the patient passenger as negotiated the rightside line, we picked-up Miguel from CiS, and rode hard as field fadded w/200m togo, w/50 togo all (3)Jordans were done, greyJersey faded right and i held CiS to 20m and we both took off...finished clear 3nd (2)bike back of Miguel w/(1) other inbetween.
felt good!
chris 'zen svengali ninja' Yacks was on our tails@fifth in front of yet another cat4 10th place finish crash.
key: for finish and in last couple race is to breath/breath/head-up/open field of vision and wait @near top speed for clearPath in final 50m...then try to focus on control and wheel/pedal/frame fluidity&traction...good 2also have capt.Dan's heavy weight 11:27 clincher on board. the green hornet strikes again.
-h;-)
31.2mi, 25.6avg
L&C_03, cat4, wet, 60F, (9)laps/31mi
race report:
flatted on 2nd warm-up lap(rear wheel, tubular), Jules' good guidance suggested that borrow a tire from someone @start/finish, TA DA! capt. DanRaniers to rescue!:-)
spoke to McKay before roll-out about finish &i would patrol left side to, a) block attack, &b) capture a point or 2 for greyJersey;
per Jules(our road capt ofDay) KCC group's plan to protect GreenJersey &'attack, attack. attack,'
i think i did a bit of work at top of the park once or twice, but majority &serious work/efforts were clearly being done by JimNelson, Jules, Owens, Phillip, Craig, Duncan, JeffCondon &WesTillman(in his 1st cat4 race was a champ repeatedly off the front!),
Jules may not be pleased by timing and commitment of "attacks', but i must say that Kissenas were clearly patrolling the front and keeping the race pace up(hb-view from caboose) in a much more organized fashion than previous (2)L&C Races this season;
the leadouts: (Jim&Jim&Jim, Whitey, Jules, Jeff, Owens, etc) for power sprinters (Yacks&DaSilva at 2ea. KOMs&greenJersey sprints, were impressive &i was stunned to witness (2) of JimNelson's full bore draining efforts if not ALL(4)...chapeau Jim!
i utilized each of the KOMs&Sprints to move up with goal of a counter attack, IF? i had the juice, but was not particularly useful, until the late laps @>4 togo, as i felt stronger and a sense that may actually finish the race,
bellLap: back to mid-Pack, marked greyJersey, (3)Jordans&a RideBklyn, right side from top of hill to temple, played the patient passenger as negotiated the rightside line, we picked-up Miguel from CiS, and rode hard as field fadded w/200m togo, w/50 togo all (3)Jordans were done, greyJersey faded right and i held CiS to 20m and we both took off...finished clear 3nd (2)bike back of Miguel w/(1) other inbetween.
felt good!
chris 'zen svengali ninja' Yacks was on our tails@fifth in front of yet another cat4 10th place finish crash.
key: for finish and in last couple race is to breath/breath/head-up/open field of vision and wait @near top speed for clearPath in final 50m...then try to focus on control and wheel/pedal/frame fluidity&traction...good 2also have capt.Dan's heavy weight 11:27 clincher on board. the green hornet strikes again.
-h;-)
31.2mi, 25.6avg
May 11, 2013 at 07:10 PM
My report:
Overall I'm DELIGHTED to be back in the mix after a very frustrating couple of months out of action with a knee niggle. It was great to see so many old & new KCC faces lining up on a rainy day.
Overall I'm DELIGHTED to be back in the mix after a very frustrating couple of months out of action with a knee niggle. It was great to see so many old & new KCC faces lining up on a rainy day.
Quick note about the rain; there was plenty of traction and if anything people were better behaved as a result.
I for one have never felt more at ease in a racing peloton. This time last year I was completely white-knuckled in the pack and this year it was no big thang - even in the rain.
I wasn't involved in the Green sprint but it looked like our man Andy got the first one. The last KOM I stuffed the polka dot jersey into the wind for almost a kilo leading into the sprint which was great - I went early to force him (Yak style) to chase and even though I blew like so much wind Yaks was there to get the job done. KOM points AND a top 10 finish for the master of non-plastic riding!
Overall as I said above, we should be attacking and countering MUCH better than I saw today. If your teammate spits blood to make a move happen - like Whitey did on the first or second lap - and he comes back and nobody counters, you might as well give him the finger. Thats what we did today.
Many times the purpose of an attack is to soften the field so that subsequent attacks - YOUR attack - has a better chance of sticking, or at least putting guys off the back so you have fewer guys to compete with. IF YOU DO NOT COUNTER RIGHT AWAY THE ATTACK IS WASTED. All the attack has done is tire out the guys who attacked.
Many times the purpose of an attack is to soften the field so that subsequent attacks - YOUR attack - has a better chance of sticking, or at least putting guys off the back so you have fewer guys to compete with. IF YOU DO NOT COUNTER RIGHT AWAY THE ATTACK IS WASTED. All the attack has done is tire out the guys who attacked.
Bruce ponied up with a big old plate of "dig deep" towards the end when he made a nice counter and got a decent gap with another guy and trust me; it hurt the field. It hurt me just to hang on when they chased. If we'd have done that five times instead of ONCE who knows, maybe Harry would be in first and Yaks would be in third...
To be clear; I'm not pointing any fingers - but anytime we have almost a dozen guys in the field and we don't bash on that field like a screen door in a hurricane we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
May 11, 2013 at 07:16 PM
A note on the timing of attacks. Here is the scenario:
A guy leaves the field, rides away and one or two guys follow. They stay out there for some time but the chasing 4's finally bring them back. The guys slide dejectedly into the pack and everyone sits up and rests after the hard chase.
A guy leaves the field, rides away and one or two guys follow. They stay out there for some time but the chasing 4's finally bring them back. The guys slide dejectedly into the pack and everyone sits up and rests after the hard chase.
IT IS NOW TOO LATE TO COUNTER EFFECTIVELY
If you wait until the break is reabsorbed then:
a) the field gets to rest with you and
b) the next attack has the scrutiny of the entire field - everyone gets to make a well informed, well rested, considered decision about whether to chase or not
Consider the alternative:
The 3 or 4 guys have been away and as they are sliding back - but are still about 10 bike lengths ahead someone jumps hard up the side of the pack. Nobody was watching *him* because they were chasing the 3 or 4 guys. Now somebody jumps on the left to join the counter attack and there are TWO guys who nobody was watching halfway to the returning bunch.
Now one guy in the original group decides he has more in the tank and starts to work with the 2 new guys. You have 6 guys up the road and nobody at the front can keep track of what the fuck is going on - is that guy one of the originals or a new guy - wait how many out out in total?
Imagine that plays out EVERY TIME A BREAK COMES BACK. Eventually in the chaos the front of the field is filled with blown riders and nobody behind them has any freaking idea who is doing what up front.
In which of the two scenarios do you think our chances are greater of getting a "real" break going?
Imagine that plays out EVERY TIME A BREAK COMES BACK. Eventually in the chaos the front of the field is filled with blown riders and nobody behind them has any freaking idea who is doing what up front.
In which of the two scenarios do you think our chances are greater of getting a "real" break going?
This is what people are talking about when they say "Relentless attacking" and trust me, it works. If we do this enough our breaks will stick and people will work harder with us - because hey, do you want to work in a break or deal with 10 counter attacks in the next hour and THEN work in the break?
May 11, 2013 at 07:23 PM
Updated pictures - old ones were a little dark
May 11, 2013 at 07:36 PM
I believe Andy got 2nd and 1st in the sprints...but dead last in parking as the city towed his Saturn away. Careful parking on Flatbush Ave. !
The 1st KOM I felt awful & the legs felt blocked. I got 2nd or 3rd...in the 2nd, Jules spooked the polka-dots and he bit hard...I sat on him and waited until the turn and then unleashed my fury !
Jim Nelson did a masterful job of sheperding Andy to the line (something he has been doing for years now).
Dirty Harry stuck a crafty sprint for 3rd !
The finale was ok until complete madness set in and some ass mongler changed his line.
yacks
May 11, 2013 at 08:36 PM
Ragot & Don Draper have never been seen in the same room at the same time....just sayin,,,
May 11, 2013 at 08:44 PM
May 11, 2013 at 08:55 PM
My mother-in-law says the same thing.
twoyacks said:
well, that I look like him...Ragot & Don Draper have never been seen in the same room at the same time....just sayin,,,
May 11, 2013 at 09:32 PM
Sacrebleu !!!!!!! Whitey got my KOM points!
May 11, 2013 at 10:28 PM
May 11, 2013 at 10:30 PM
@Yaks ain't right, but it's funny as heck.
May 11, 2013 at 10:32 PM
2 Castaldi Cup races in a row I got jobbed on the results sheet...
May 11, 2013 at 10:56 PM
Me confuseey. Are you saying that you've placed in several KOM sprints and haven't gotten the points? 1 L&C races in a row? That sucks...what can be done to fix this problem?twoyacks said:2 Castaldi Cup races in a row I got jobbed on the results sheet...
May 11, 2013 at 11:00 PM
Go whitey!!!!!