L&C Cup - Forum Archive

Jun 19, 2013 at 05:10 PM

on two separate occasions across two races i informed charlie's guys that a racer -- the same fucking guy each time! -- used the joggers lane to move up multiple times. on one of those occasions i was told, "he'll learn... he's a cat 5".

my point is the application of the law has been patchy. if charlie's serious, then there should be a zero-tolerance approach to offenses and if two racers verify that another racer has broken the rules, they should be punished.

Jules

Jun 19, 2013 at 05:33 PM

Adam said:

Ok, own up! Don't make me go through Victor Chan's photos (like Colombo would) to get the perp's ID!

I do believe an example needs to be set here. If the person who this is just raises their hand, you can work out the weeks you had no intention of riding L&C anyway and the club can sanction a 'Kissena Cycling Club reprimand'. That way, it takes it out of Charlie's/USA Cylcing's hands and sets an example for other clubs to follow. Then we re-gain the moral high ground when they perform a similar 'misdemeanour' and don't reprimand their own. Also, this takes the enforcement away from Charlie and puts it on the clubs. Probably better that way.

Adam, the KCC board is actively discussing this issue and how to prevent it or similar in the future. The person in question has been contacted.

Brendan Rigby

Jun 19, 2013 at 05:39 PM

enforcement always feels a bit arbitrary, but where our reputation and ability to race in the park is potentially on the line, an appropriate sanction must, unfortunately, follow...

Jeffrey White

Jun 19, 2013 at 06:42 PM

@Brendan - I agree that there is a certain air of permissiveness at park races. Less so at Charlie's race than at Van Dunk's, but nonetheless, it is destructive.

Thierry Bonnaire

Jun 19, 2013 at 06:48 PM

A witch hunt type of rant is not OK with me and I'm sure for others in the club. I recognize the bike and I know who the person is. He's a good man and it was a pleasure to train with him, everyone make mistakes sometimes for f$)) sakes!

Craig Zolan

Jun 19, 2013 at 06:52 PM

For comedic relief, I think we should come up with some suitable punishment. (this isn't intended as a dig on the actual individual). Here are a few I can think of:

Wash all of the club member's bikes
Shave the legs of other members
Clean the catch basins / sewers of PP
Forced to ride/race in one race for Siggis, W.S. United, Setana,... [insert club of your choice]
Must ride next race with bib straps on outside of jersey, helmet straps over sunglasses, fenders on, mix and match kit, and any other "unpro" thing you can think of.

David Yang

Jun 19, 2013 at 06:55 PM

#5. Definitely #5. Please let it be #5, especially the bibs over jersey baggy yellow t-shirt.

Phil Maronilla

Jun 19, 2013 at 07:04 PM

Actually, I would go for #2.. haha god knows i need one of those.

Jules

Jun 19, 2013 at 07:04 PM

(I think that having to wear one's number upside down for the next race would be appropriate)

In all seriousness though - mistakes and errors of judgement happen and EVERY ONE OF US has at one time or another violated a park rule. Lots of people finish a race so gassed we couldn't find the shoes on our feet let alone make good decisions about park traffic...

The real point is that we still have (unfortunately) an adversarial relationship with the park and we have to ride on eggshells.

Charlie has been either going without sleep entirely or getting up at ridiculous hours to put these races on for longer than many of us have been racing (many, not all

) he knows what he can and is willing to do. He'll be the first to tell you that these are training races and he doesn't want to be issuing official USAC bulletins about which riders were fined for littering, etc if he doesn't have to.

I think it's important to recognize that he isn't asking the club or the racing population "what do I do?" but rather informing us all that the situation at Prospect (and at FBF for that matter) is delicate and asking us to spread the word and behave like we're on stage - because we are.

mugwump

Jun 19, 2013 at 07:07 PM

Thierry, Yes a good person. Yes must have been a mistake. I'm sure he's chastened, as the pic is all over FB.

Craig, I think you need a #6.

6. take greasy chain. Apply to inside and outside of both calves. Race like this.

And Yang, I'd be happy if it was over a US Postal yellow jersey.

Craig Zolan

Jun 19, 2013 at 07:31 PM

Thierry and everyone else, I still don't know who it is and I don't particularly care. Everyone that I know in the club is a good person. It's like getting a parking, speeding or other ticket. We've likely all gotten one and that fact doesn't make us bad people.

As Jules points out, we're on thin ice with the parks dept and I think that some symbolic act might help to heal the relationship by showing we take their concerns seriously. Doing nothing (other than spreading the word, again) sends the wrong message. It doesn't have to be a USAC bulletin. In fact, I don't think a USAC punishment is warranted nor do I think the USAC penalties for failing to abide by the rules of the road help us from the perspective of the parks dept.

Jules

Jun 19, 2013 at 07:45 PM

Craig I agree with you re: mistakes happen - at the end of the day I don't think the park cares what punishment(s) we mete out - they just want the rules obeyed - or even a conflict free park.

Unfortunately given our shaky relations with them prevents us from getting a genuine answer as to what they want beyond "no more races"

Dan Reiners

Jun 19, 2013 at 07:46 PM

Mark Clifford said:

on two separate occasions across two races i informed charlie's guys that a racer -- the same fucking guy each time! -- used the joggers lane to move up multiple times. on one of those occasions i was told, "he'll learn... he's a cat 5".

my point is the application of the law has been patchy. if charlie's serious, then there should be a zero-tolerance approach to offenses and if two racers verify that another racer has broken the rules, they should be punished.

Mark, those issues should not be brought up with Charlie, but with the USAC officials at the race since they're the ones who can DQ the rider, not the promoter. When you do that, bring a second witness with you. it makes it easier for the official to make a decision, and it isn't your word against his.

Craig Zolan

Jun 19, 2013 at 08:02 PM

Out of curiosity, is it the Parks Dept (as in the official city department) or the Prospect Park Alliance (the non-profit) that is the institution voicing the concerns?

Thierry Bonnaire

Jun 19, 2013 at 08:19 PM

Craig Zolan said:

Thierry and everyone else, I still don't know who it is and I don't particularly care. Everyone that I know in the club is a good person. It's like getting a parking, speeding or other ticket. We've likely all gotten one and that fact doesn't make us bad people.

As Jules points out, we're on thin ice with the parks dept and I think that some symbolic act might help to heal the relationship by showing we take their concerns seriously. Doing nothing (other than spreading the word, again) sends the wrong message. It doesn't have to be a USAC bulletin. In fact, I don't think a USAC punishment is warranted nor do I think the USAC penalties for failing to abide by the rules of the road help us from the perspective of the parks dept.

Craig,

What I was reacting to is some of that righteous indignation that was posted previously on this subject . I know that it is a difficult matter to resolve but I think above all that we need to be respectful of each other no matter what. Now I have some antiretroviral gels to formulate....

Brendan Rigby

Jun 19, 2013 at 10:36 PM

7. cannot put feet on pedals during next race; must "jog" while sitting on bike

twoyacks

Jun 20, 2013 at 01:20 AM

Well....who wants to join the kom posse ? I could continue to be a sniper and follow the polka dot guy up the hill or....we could run the Kissena train on him. Can you smell what I'm cookin ? What say ye ?

rock.jpg

jim_nelson

Jun 20, 2013 at 01:28 AM

Let's see what he had for breakfast

twoyacks

Jun 20, 2013 at 01:49 AM

NICE !!!! I don't think he will be "chumming" the waters again this week...but all the more reason to pass him before the top of the hill...especially all you carbon lovers as I hear gastric acid and bile can melt your frames clear coat.

twoyacks

Jun 20, 2013 at 02:21 AM

KOM train members get....KLONDIKES !!!

klondikebar.jpg

Jules

Jun 20, 2013 at 01:07 PM

Did someone say ICE CREAM?!?!?

tito

Jun 20, 2013 at 04:10 PM

Yacks, I submit to your will for the KOM - I can either go first and draw Erik P. after me and you can hitch a ride, or I can lead you out. You just let me know what works better.

In general, my goal is to work for our jersey goals - KOM, helping lead Andy out, whatever.

twoyacks

Jun 20, 2013 at 04:28 PM

Tito...you are all mine (unless Andy can do better than a Klondike bar). I would love to have Aloysh, Brendan, Patrick or Jules take me half way up the climb. A sweeper or two would be great as I don't want company when I jump. The polka dot guy is alone. If we have a small train with a few sweepers, he won't get near me on that hill. A good train is like a crane kick..."if do right, no can defense".

karate-kid-crane-kick1.jpg

alyoshas

Jun 20, 2013 at 05:18 PM

Yacks, if my knee still feels decent after Cielo on saturday (I'm dealing with a little patellar tendonitis and I'm currently resting it) I'll be ready to rip it.

twoyacks

Jun 20, 2013 at 05:24 PM

I too have the dreaded patella tendonitus. I bought an ice pack with a Velcro pouch. Any drug store should have one. I put that on after rides. Keep your cadence up and maybe raise the saddle a bit. Take anti inflamatories...cut way down on the miles for a few weeks. Roll and stretch it bands, hammy's, gluteus and calfs. All these muscles can pull your knee out of alignment. Good luck

alyoshas

Jun 20, 2013 at 05:35 PM

well it first started at battenkill, I lowered my seat to get better traction on the gravel and the pain was at the bottom of the knee- It got better after a week of rest and then reintroducing load easily. Now its at the top of the patella and my saddle is the right height i believe. I went to piermont on wed, and it didn't hurt at all on the way up but felt pain again on the way home...I was going pretty hard which I'm sure didn't help. So now I apply topical ibuprofen (voltaren) and band the knee in addition to ice and oral ibuprofen at home: I should be good to fly in no time I hope. stretching is a good idea as well, I haven't really been doing that, I massage the shit out of it though.

twoyacks

Jun 20, 2013 at 05:59 PM

the hardest thing sometimes is going slow. Try riding indoors where if the knee flares up, you simply get off. You also have total control of your effort indoors...Spinning at 100 rpm for 30 minutes every other day helps me when the knee craps out. Don't worry about losing too much form. Just tell yourself its active recovery or tapering for the weekend race.

mugwump

Jun 20, 2013 at 06:23 PM

Aly,

It might be worth talking to a fit expert. When I had the same ages ago, it was recommended that I raise my saddle to stress the knee less.

Jules

Jun 20, 2013 at 06:50 PM

@Yaks I'm there for you - just let me know what you need. I can keep the break from getting away before the sprints, leadout or sweet - pick one per preme

My preference is to sweep on the 2nd preme if it's all still together.

Jeffrey White

Jun 20, 2013 at 07:09 PM

Marc Bertucco said:

alyoshas said:

Strong work guys! lets do it again next time and put a stamp on this thing.

I agree.

Jeff White had a good idea of how you can achieve world domination next time out. I'm sure he'll share in plenty of time to execute it before the next L&C race.

World domination plan:

DaSilva for the win. Forget about the green jersey for a bit. Or, at most, assign someone (not Andy!) to mark second place for green and try to take some of his points.

With the way Andy is going, and his huge points lead, he should only be making race-winning moves. If someone makes a run at him over the next couple weeks, we can shut it back down.