Weight Loss Discussion - Forum Archive

Mar 08, 2013 at 05:00 PM

@Mark and Vlad. Uhm...let's consider an extreme example to make the point that too much weight lost can equal loss of strength and power. Like a cachectic elderly person, or younger person with an eating disorder. These folks are WEAK, because, they've lost too much weight.

Specifically, in addition to losing fat, these folks are generally seriously dehydrated and have lost muscle mass as well.

So, there is a threshold here. You must consider the kind of weight you are losing. If you are chronically dehydrated (easy to do in the winter, surprisingly enough), or losing muscle mass in the wrong places, then yes, losing weight is definitely going to cut down on your power.

Jeff Owens

Mar 22, 2013 at 10:02 PM

Here's how to lose weight: eat less and exercise more. Thread closed.

And take bigger shits.

Brendan Rigby

Mar 27, 2013 at 04:02 AM

somebody should ask this guy what his weight loss strategy is. i see a KOM jersey in his future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3AeRbqhi0I

Dan Reiners

Mar 27, 2013 at 04:38 PM

I don't know if this goes in the weightloss, or the articles of interest threads.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/03/road-to-drunkorexia/274205/

dstearns

Mar 27, 2013 at 04:55 PM

Jeff Owens said:

Here's how to lose weight: eat less and exercise more. Thread closed. And take bigger shits.

Sweet. I typically manage to do one of these 3 things REALLY well.

Dan Reiners

Mar 27, 2013 at 10:02 PM

I am re-opening this discussion.

Bacterial gut doping...to lose weight. Or everybody's favorite idea, fecal transplant. Apparently Sterns and Owens are offering themselves as donors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/28/health/studies-focus-on-gut-bacteria-in-weight-loss.html?hp&_r=0

normanzo

Jul 12, 2013 at 06:36 AM

Dan Reiners said:

I am re-opening this discussion.

Bacterial gut doping...to lose weight. Or everybody's favorite idea, fecal transplant. Apparently Sterns and Owens are offering themselves as donors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/28/health/studies-focus-on-gut-bacteria-in-weight-loss.html?hp&_r=0

Just saw your post Dan... FYI: over the past couple of months I've been repopulating my gut flora with a multi-faceted bacteria onslaught: Fermented cod liver oil, full-on greek yogurt, kimchee, kombucha, slightly washed organic veggies, avoiding acid-loading foods, and topping it all off, I think I ate poop last week when I ingested some bison burger that --well-- tasted like poop smells (I stopped eating it immediately though). If anyone would like to partake of my robust gut biome, just give me a call.

normanzo

Jul 12, 2013 at 06:47 AM

One my my new favorite gut advocates... here, criticizing Dr. Oz and the medical community for their nonsense approach to healing the gut:

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2012/06/dr-oz-on-gut-flora-repair.html

jim_nelson

Jul 12, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Oh yeah. Just had some homemade sauerkruat last night. Yum.

mugwump

Jul 12, 2013 at 04:15 PM

Has anyone kept their air conditioners off in order to use the heat to suppress their appetite?

normanzo

Jul 12, 2013 at 04:19 PM

I didn't know that technique. However, I didn't have air condition in my Slope apt and it got very hot and muggy mid-summer... the pints of ice cream, jars of nut butter, fancy chocolate bars, plus all the high-cal non-snack foods were always flowing. I did cut back significantly on the "bad" stuff for weeks at a time, but never very successfully in summer (perhaps because I was riding more, I don't know).

WilliamDC

Jul 12, 2013 at 04:22 PM

mugwump said:

Has anyone kept their air conditioners off in order to use the heat to suppress their appetite?

zomg - ew - no! i'd be a wreck if i didn't have AC to help me sleep.

what's helping me cut down is that my kitchen has terrible ventilation and cooking anything makes my already hot apt hotter. lots of salad with canned tuna and lots of beans/mozzarella/tomatoes.

dstearns

Jul 12, 2013 at 04:24 PM

mugwump said:

Has anyone kept their air conditioners off in order to use the heat to suppress their appetite?

i'm trying it. doesn't hurt that my air conditioner is actually broken.

Jeffrey White

Jul 12, 2013 at 04:27 PM

My dog would not be amused.

alyoshas

Jul 12, 2013 at 04:37 PM

I did not have air conditioner until this year- I cracked, came home one day and said I had enough. night time really is the crucial time to put it to use though. As far as appetite goes I'm not sure what to say but what William is saying: cooking in he heat sucks big time so if I'm using the pan or boiling water, it's usually after 9pm.

vlad

Jul 12, 2013 at 04:50 PM

I would counter that the effects from sleep deprivation and poor overall sleep would counteract the benefits appetite suppression. And really, who are we kidding? A fatty would eat right through being uncomfortably hot.

I heard that AIDS is really good at making you skinny too, but probably not a good bike racer.

On a slightly more serious note, I've noticed that my body temperature is generally in the low to mid 97 degree area. Sometimes it dips into the 96's. I know this because I had it regularly taken in the hospital and continue to monitor it while dealing with my elbow injury. Is lower body temperature a result of lower resting heart rate? Is there any relation at all?

What I'm looking for is this: does lower body temperature indicate lower metabolism which indicates lower sustainable calorie intake? Is this genetic or a result of racing one's balls off for a bunch of years?

Nurses, what say ye? Jules, can you ask your wife?

mugwump

Jul 12, 2013 at 04:54 PM

vlad said:

I would counter that the effects from sleep deprivation and poor overall sleep would counteract the benefits appetite suppression. And really, who are we kidding? A fatty would eat right through being uncomfortably hot.

I heard that AIDS is really good at making you skinny too, but probably not a good bike racer.

Vlad, Yes, poor sleep would be worse. But as the others point out, the hot kitchen is an eating deterrent. I generally sweat it out during the day and on the hottest nights, turn on the AC. As I've written elsewhere, I have a thermometer by my bed and adjust accordingly.

Good point about AIDS. Though I don't want to try it.

jim_nelson

Jul 12, 2013 at 05:14 PM

No A/C for me. Just left them in the basement this year. I do eat more salads during the summer though I've never had A/C in the kitchen so that's always been true.

Jules

Jul 12, 2013 at 05:15 PM

@Vlad I'll ask. Normal variations in body temp are much larger than we're led to believe in general.

I'm back at 157 which is my typical weight when I seem to be strongest. Every year I go a little lower earlier, than eat a little more unreservedly and then get another percent or two stronger.

Weird.

Jules

Jul 12, 2013 at 05:24 PM

@ Vlad Lisa's still at work but a quick look at the webernets seems to confirm this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_temperature

dstokes

Jul 12, 2013 at 05:25 PM

With regard to body temperature, I think you have to consider a couple of practicalities with the actual measurement. Where are you putting the thermometer? Not in your core and it is possible that it is not reading the true temperature. When my kids were young, I used to stick it in their armpit and just add a couple of degrees. Really it is just a relative reading and you only care when it is abnormally elevated. Second, thermometers may not be perfectly calibrated. 98.6! Who are we kidding with this level of accuracy? If you are serious about that, then there should be some way to calibrate it at defined temperatures (e.g., boiling water or melting ice).

Alex Vaughan

Jul 12, 2013 at 05:49 PM

I one had to calibrate a bunch of scientific lab thermometers; they were all within +/- 4 deg. QED Thermometers are shit.

The digital ones might actually be better, though.

vlad

Jul 12, 2013 at 06:16 PM

@dstokes, temperature is taken under my tongue, both at the hospital and in my home. The hospital thermometers and my home digital thermometer indicate the same body temperature (36.3/97.4). They were taking my vitals every 4-6 hours or so at the hospital, so this was fairly consistent over the course of my 11 day stay. One night or two at the hospital I got into the mid 35's, so they gave me another blanket. All I'm saying is that it seems like I'm running a little cold and that might fall in line with why I don't seem to need a lot of nutrition on long rides and races shy of 2 hours.

@Jules, that's an interesting chart. Would be cool if that could be folded into garmin data collection somehow.

alyoshas

Jul 12, 2013 at 06:18 PM

I remember someone sayin the most accurate measurement of body core temperature was the external auditory meatus aka the outter ear canal. I think heat also causes weight loss because we're forced to drink more. More water in the stomach fakes the mind in thinking that it is full, at least for a little bit, until the paucity of leptin is felt.

Jules

Jul 12, 2013 at 08:10 PM

@Vlad wait for it. Ingestible measuring devices are almost ready for prime time.

Jules

Jul 12, 2013 at 08:17 PM

They can't wait...

http://www.proteusdigitalhealth.com/technology/digital-health-feedback-system/

vlad

Jul 12, 2013 at 08:44 PM

Sweet, I can't wait. Looks like we're going to see some super cool applications of technology on our health systems in the very near future. As cyclists, we're already near the front on that with our use of garmin, withings, etc...

mugwump

Jul 12, 2013 at 11:41 PM

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=2094&page=187

From "nutritional needs in hot environments: applications for military personnel in field operations"

Here's a quote "According to this view, if the environment is cold, the resultant heat loss demands compensatory strategies, including notably increased food intake for its thermic effect. By extension, if the ambient temperature is warm, and heat loss is not an issue, there ought to be a reduced caloric demand. And should the environment become significantly hot—which changes the concern from how to obtain energy to how to dissipate it—a suppression of caloric intake should be expected. "At a high temperature where loss of heat is difficult, food intake should be low, lest by eating and assimilating food the body acquire more heat than it can dispose of" (Brobeck, 1948). This temperature-dependent variation in energy needs should, in principle, be reflected in appetite. Brobeck (1948) claims that "everyone knows ... that appetite fails in hot weather.""

dstokes

Jul 13, 2013 at 01:21 AM

According to this, you should blast the A/C to produce a frigid environment and maintain your normal eating habits. Your body will burn more energy to keep you warm and you will lose weight. The idea of lowering appetite by keeping a warm apartment is spurious, because you will also be using less energy and if anything, you will be more likely to gain weight.

Soooooo

Crank up the A/C boys and get a good nights sleep!

Alex Vaughan

Jul 13, 2013 at 03:31 AM

WHY YES I WILL LOOK THIS UP THANK YOU

Haskell, E. H., Palca, J. W., Walker, J. M., Berger, R. J., & Heller, H. C. (n.d.). Metabolism and thermoregulation during stages of sleep in humans exposed to heat and cold. jap.physiology.org.

These guys looked at VO2 (not vo2max) during sleep across a wide range of ambient temperatures - 21C-37C. One cool result is that dreaming /REM sleep uses about 50% more energy than deeper sleep. For the temperature result, though, they see about 10% greater VO2 when ambient temps at ~21C *or* 34-37C (during non-REM sleep)

So, you can either keep the temp below ~70F or above ~93F to get a 10% boost. If basal metabolic rate is, oh, 60cal/hr, then this simple trick that a stay-at-home mom came up with (and that the medical establishment doesn't want you to know!) will literally save you ONES of calories per hour. A pretty good deal.

Or you can just, you know, dream more. I suggest Ambien.