The circus is in town. Jake and I got down, but we didn't make the winning move. My legs are finally starting to come back to me.

Always fun racing at floyd. They combined the masters and the 4/5 field, and these guys (masters)were attackng non stop!
No flats and finished with the pack. Good times

Nice job Chaim...but did you wear clothes this time?

It's back on, starting tomorrow night. Pre-reg is available online in addition to day of: https://www.bikereg.com/tuesdayfbf

Overcast tonight, a little rain during the race, 123s were sprinting almost in the dark. Very warm, shorts and short sleeve jersey.

I flatted on the way there.
I flatted on the last lap.
Floyd sucker punched me good.
Race #1.  Done.

^ouch

That wide…...28mm not 25mm ?

not to many frames can accept a 28mm tire

Bruce - how's the tarmac? Worse than last year's (ie new sink holes etc.) or same old same old?

Tarmac is just fucking fine.

Any bad potholes got filled by cement.  I got a comment on my Strava by Alek who said he did it with Scott Savory's father.  They did a good job, all of the nasty stuff is gone, especially that big, long rip in the road on the second turn after the start/finish.  It's pretty smooth, though nothing prevented me from being hit in the face with rocks.  Floyd is a great place to practice breathing hard with my mouth mostly closed so I don't get my teeth broken.

@Rick/@Mark Vlad rides the 28's, I ride rode 25's.

Mark, many standard road bikes will go 28's, most aero road bikes won't.

Floyd is not for your Michelin Pro4 V2's. (nor is PP for that matter). The right tire for the conditions fellas... plus there's ample evidence that Conti's roll fast, even faster with latex tubes...  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tliianZmxwY

Also, FWIW, my Michelin Pro4 25s are FAT, much fatter than my Conti GatorSkin 25s. Like I don't think I could fit a Pro4 28 in my frame, but probably 28s in the Contis would fit. Also, I've been racing in PP and training on the Gatorskins all year and don't plan to give them up anytime soon for this venue. (Turkey Hill, I was all latex tubed and such)

You don't get extra credit for riding slow tires.  

You lose watts.  Sometimes lots of watts.  

Sure, flatting out of a race sucks, but is it worse than sacrificing 10-30 watts?  That could well be the difference between making the break and not.  

mugwump said:

I think you guys are just bad on tires.  I've been riding Pro4 23mm at Prospect this year, and rode them at several FBF's last year.  The only flats I've gotten were pinch flats from hitting huge holes, which would have occurred, probably more easily, on a less supple tire with a butyl tube.  

Fact check. JP = 1 flat at PP this year. Marc = 0 flat at PP this year.

10-30 Watts is bogus. Show me some data to support that statement, that doesn't involve testing the tire on an aluminium drum.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Things_that_Roll/Tires/Continental_GP_4000_S_II_3946.html

Pinch flats don't care what tire or tube you're using. If you're worried about pinch flats the only thing that will make any real difference is bigger tire displacement and higher air pressure. If you're worried about a true puncture, sure, try one of those super hard tires like the Gatorskin. Tough to win on that tire, though, because it rolls much slower. (Plus it feels unpleasant and doesn't grip corners as well.)

I race on my race tires. They're super plush Vittorias. They are 25mm and I inflate them higher when I'm worried about pinch flats. I'm frankly done worrying about preventing punctures from sharp objects. When you do the math of calculating how much force a sharp, hard object can use to poke through a loaded tire, you realize that tough tires are only addressing the fringes. You're pretty much gonna flat when you run over something hard and sharp no matter what.

Jeffrey White said:

Pinch flats don't care what tire or tube you're using. 

Agreed.  

When I pinch-flatted out in Prospect this year, it was me riding race tires below the recommended inflation pressure. I deliberately under inflated by more than 5psi to see if it was a benefit.  It wasn't.  Maybe I should be riding 25mm tires instead.  

Marc, While you didn't flat, you also got dropped on the hill when you were trying to go with an attack.  Perhaps  you would have hung on with faster tires.  I also saw you at the very back, and you reported you had trouble positioning.  With faster tires, you might not have been so far back, or you would have been able to hang there with less effort, recovering better for your next attack.

FWIW, the previous time I flatted in Prospect, it was also a pinch flat.  

There was poor analysis.  Bruce did not specify the kind of flats he got.  Nor did anyone ask before making pronouncements. 

At Roubaix and Flanders, the racers are not riding training tires.  they're riding racing tires, often times going beyond sponsors for extra-supple casings.

John, no I haven't seen real-world testing of your preferred Conti' GP 4 Season.  But one of the masters of Crr testing, Al Morrison, writes on his chart, "Crr values are typical for very smooth surfaces - Crr on typical road surfaces may be 50 to 100 % higher"  At 100% higher, the 10w difference on rollers goes up to 20w.

Morrison tested a version of your tire in 23mm with a Michelin Latex tube and got 18.2w per wheel. While something like Whitey uses, Vittoria Open Corsa CX 23mm with latex tube is 12.8w per wheel. 5.4w difference on the drum, up to 10.8w per wheel on the road, aka up to 21.6w per bike.  And with Anhalt's chart, he doesn't have your tire.  But if we use Marc's Pro4 in 23mm, it's 40w per bike at 40kph, I think the most proximate tire to your Conti' is the Specialized All Condition Pro at 58w.  I hope it isn't like the Specialized All Condition AM reflect, at 71w.

Tom Anhalt, the author of the chart you showed, writes the following, "The wrong tire choice can easily "cost" a rider 10-15W of power to go a given speed." And he's not even discussing racing training tires. Follow the link I've provided and you'll see he's referring to real-world results on the road.  http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/2013/02/tire-crr-testing-on-rollers-chartand.html

If anyone has better data, I'd love to see it.

But my point in all this is to consider what the value of the slow tire is.  At what point is it worth it to slow yourself down vs. taking the risk of flatting?  I think in many cases, it's worth the risk of flatting.  We don't get prizes for pack finishes.

mugwump said:

 We don't get prizes for pack finishes.

But we do get points for winning sprints. Which I did the very lap after you saw me sitting at the back of the field. But keep on thinking I'm getting "dropped," that shit makes me laugh.

Needling each other aside...

For me, it's not only the roads of PP that make me feel good about my tire choice, but the darkened roads from my apartment to the race. Especially Canal street.

Everyone should race/ride the equipment they feel most comfortable. Lots of diff't ways to approach race day.

No Bruce. Hate won't work nor will rubber. You gotta go with RAGE. Either murderous or blind will do.

Love love racing at Floyd.

The masters lined up with the 4/5s tonight and raced for 45 mins. There was a headwind after turn one, but otherwise it wasn't too windy. 

There was an attack right at the gun but didnt get anywhere. There seemed to be an attack (like always) each lap and finally three got away midrace. The field would chase from one turn to the next then sit up. 

Two laps to go, I happened to be on the wheel of a kosher cyclist dude and another and bridged to a second group of three. We simply rolled passed the front and away we went. But when we got to them, everyone sat up and let the field catch up. Ugh!

Overall a fun race, hard, fast, and furious. One annoying thing, every time we got the start/finish, the single file would snake back and forth. I dont get it. If you dont want anyone on your wheel (up front), then attack and get away. Dont swing wildly left and right.

Note: I rode Conti grand Prix' 4000. 23mm, with a season's worth of racing on them. No flats. Just saying.

I'm 50/50 for tonight. On one hand, it's supposed to be a rest day and I have a little soreness in my hamstring. On the other, next week will be a taper week and my office is closing at 3 today for some event, so I may as well. 

Anyone else planning on heading out?

I'm out - between the need to rest and my janky knee/hamstring, I'm better off staying home. 

Bad crash last night. Took out a few guys on third corner of last lap including me and Rick. Luckilly I fell on a guy after going over the handlebar. Some scrapes and bruises for me. Got up and rode to the finish.

I didnt realize at the time that Rick was down too. Hes much worse. Still in hospital. Ribs and lung issues.

Damn, bad news, I'm sorry to hear it.  I'm glad to hear you're ok, overall, Phil.  Any news on Rick, where he is?  Were others hurt, too?

Oh no! 
Yes, please let us know where Rick is. Hope he is ok.