Kissena Forum Archive

Local Dopers

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@ Dan are you joking?  I can't tell.  Yes, it would be strange.  

I'll be moving for a lifetime ban from Kissena for anyone caught doping at our next board meeting.
People are going to dope at the next board meeting?
I'm tired of all these meetings with inflated power, unrealistic pace and unrelenting attacking... it's just to human
Dan...don't invite that cock-knocker on the team.  We are not the land of misfit toys. 
Lifetime ban from Kissena for anyone caught doping is probably unnecessary. Shouldn't the club have some leeway to make a judgment call on a per-case basis? I mean what if someone goes down for weed or allergy medicine or some other non-serious infraction?
Fair point.
What if George Hincape wanted to rejoin Kissena?
Lifetime ban from Kissena for anyone caught doping is probably unnecessary. Shouldn't the club have some leeway to make a judgment call on a per-case basis? I mean what if someone goes down for weed or allergy medicine or some other non-serious infraction?
^ this

kissena is a club based upon relationships, as well as a club about being humans first, racers second

Yeah, but we're MEN FIRST!... dopers second.
Well you'd have to find them first because he doesn't really have a pair. 

zing!

Guess if we do invite him we'll have to make sure he doesn't browse back on this thread.
It is interesting the array of opinions on this.

I think a lifetime ban for a first time offense is a little harsh, kind of like executing somebody for petty theft. we couldn't let Moser ever ride with us again if we had that kind of rule.

CRCA is going to give him a 4 year ban, and USAC is giving him a two year ban, so if he does decide to come back in August 2014, he doesn't really have many choices. We could either choose to be dicks and not accept him, or accept him and bring him into the fold.
People have such different definitions of "man" nowadays. (Also, to the newbies on the club, "I'M A MAN FIRST" was a threat made to one of our members at a race. It was weird.)
Sounds good.  Lets discuss it in 2016 then.
^ this
""It wasn’t for money, and it wasn’t for winning,” said Anthony, a three-time winner of theTour of the Battenkill race in upstate New York. “It was about being relevant in the group, which was pretty addicting.”
I'm realizing this is sort of an odd, circular statement.""

It might be odd, but it might not be wrong.  I even think there might be some social science behind this.  That is, people do things for groups.  Plenty of people do things in order to get in good with those they want to be around.  DA's happened to be doping.  Maybe it was proving he was a (not aging, not over-the hill) man.  Maybe he burned with a desire to hear a "good racin'" from the guys on BH.  There are no shortage of people who make fun of others for being slow--becoming the fast guy even for a race often gives an entre to the mean girls table, or at least not be criticized by them.  Even the comment Keith referenced demonstrates that. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Joe Papp wanted to be with the dopers.  Several reports I heard had him bragging in Spanish to certain riders about what he was taking.  He apparently was pretty open about doping if you were in the right circle--one such report had him standing on the start line telling another rider about what he had just put in his body.  Likewise, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons Jared Bunde got involved in doping was to have an in with the right group. 

this isn't to write that if you look for people who have nothing in their lives other than bike racing, you'll only find dopers.  Jonathan Chodroff, who seemed to have an even faster rise to the pro ranks than Neil Bezdek, didn't from the outside, fit this profile.  He started doping when he was on the Yale Crew team.  He was a skinny cat III who couldn't ride in a straight line and couldn't corner, but he could fly in time trials.  It seemed like he was a tech guy as he was always in compression socks and using an SRM.  Only a year or so beyond winning a national championship and turning pro was it revealed, and it was a non-analytic positive.  

Which kind of  brings me back to what Keith wrote.  I don't think you should lose sleep over  questions like who is who isn't.  So in taht way, I agree with him.  On the other hand, I was already convinced Jared was a doper before he was busted, and I was pretty sure Lisban Quintero and Melito Heredia were, too.  It didn't change the way I raced, other than to know they were faster than me.  I had seen all these guys race week in, week out for years, so I had a pretty good sense of what they capabilities were.  Sure, DA seemed kind of pudgy and jowly for a guy climbing so fast, but I hadn't seem him race or ride at all, so I assumed he had an amazing lung capacity or an incredible ability to suffer.  
NYVelocity posting a more lengthy apology, and a pretty blunt hint that Warren St. John will be writing about it.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/david-anthony-tests-positive

7/30 Update: A more complete story is still forthcoming, but DA asked me to post this fuller apology in the meantime.

Last week, I announced on NYVelocity.com that I had tested positive for performance enhancing drugs (PEDs).  Since then, I have heard words of support from friends and former teammates, as well as some rather pointed comments directed toward me personally, and an even greater amount of unfounded speculation toward my former team, my coaches, and those close to me. To everyone – to the BH Garneau/ComedyCentral team and sponsors, to CRCA, to race organizers, to my competitors, to my coaches, and to my friends – I want to make a sincere, unconditional apology for my actions and for the negative impact it has had on you and this sport. I want to be very explicit that I acted alone, and without the knowledge or complicity of others.

The reactions and comments to my admission have been varied, but nearly all of them have asked the right questions: how did this happen, who knew, when did it start, and why? Those affected by my actions have a right to know the answers to these questions, and I have tried to be as forthcoming with these details as possible. First, I have supplied explicit details of my case to USADA concerning from whom the PEDs were procured and how they were administered, and have spoken at length with CEO Travis Trygart and the USADA staff. I have been working with a former teammate (and full-time journalist) known to many in the local peloton on a full and objective accounting of the details of my case – including timing and usage – and intend to release this for broader distribution on NYVelocity.com in the coming days. One thing that you will not see in my accounting, however, is a roadmap for how I doped--the last thing I want is to provide guidance on how to go down this destructive path.

As for the “why”, many readers and anonymous commenters have made suggestions as to my motivations; some of the comments fair, and others not. The “why” is something that ultimately I alone will have to answer. The objective reality is that it is an extremely empty and damaging experience all around. To be clear, I am not asking for understanding or forgiveness for my actions. During my two-year suspension from racing, I will work with USADA and racing clubs to educate cyclists about the dangers for those racers tempted to begin doping, as well as a pathway out for those who want to break free of the same destructive cycle that I allowed myself to slip into. Once again, I sincerely and deeply apologize to all those that my actions have hurt.

Oh great, now he's setting himself up as the new David Millar: doper turned anti-doping hero.  With his statement and upcoming "professionally written" ego piece, there's no doubt he'll be back racing in two years. 

He's going to work with racing clubs?  He's still searching for a belonging to a group, which cycling fulfilled and he's unwilling to walk away from.  He might be getting bludgeoned over the head on nyvelocity, but he's clearly still getting some weird sort of satisfaction from the attention.  This donkey fucker needs to go away.
^Seriously. 

He clearly isn't beginning to address his need for notoriety - just shifting it from winning races to being a New York "Millar-lite"

$100 says he tries for the book.

The idea of niche-specific moral harzard/addiction and it's treatment is bizarre to me.

As for this traveling roadshow of "education" is USAC seriously proposing that they will teach morality, or that taking drugs bought on the internet or administered by shady docs in another country is dangerous?

Where are people's heads?  Gee thanks DA, where would we ever be without your oh-so wise guidance... oh that's right, racing my bike clean and staying out of the joggers lane, same as ever.
I hope Warren doesn't go in halvsies and ghost writes the work, either as an article or a book.  

Touched by the idea that he believes some of the comments were "unfair."  Considering how forthcoming he's been so far, I don't think he's in a position to make that claim.   same goes for the "greater amount of unfounded speculation."

And, of course, we don't need a roadmap.  It's easy enough to see that if he hadn't "won" his category at GFNY, he'd still be a doper getting results.
He's going to "educate" people about the dangers of doping.  Really? Thanks, professor.  Without DA's megabrain, nobody would ever go to the lengths of computing the complex mental gymnastics it would take to think that injecting drugs into your vascular system isn't dangerous, cheating, and simply pathetic in order to do well in amateur bike races.

Plus, I love how he's going to help people not fall into the cycle he was in.  Because so many other local racers can afford $2,000 A MONTH to fly to Mexico, smuggle back EPO, and meet with doctors in other countries to administer the junk.  What an out-of-touch, narcissistic, crazy douche this shitbird is.

There's a great comment from someone going as Mathis Ceramic on the velocity thread. It's really long so I won't post it here, but it's basically "This David Anthony guy has been cheating his whole life, and he just got caught, again, darnit. He's gotten caught so many times, he doesn't even use his real name any longer. David Anthony isn't a real fucking name."

If I ever see this idiot in a Kissena kit, I'm going to fight him.  And then vomit on him. 


If I ever see this idiot in a Kissena kit, I'm going to fight him.  And then vomit on him. 
Go Phillies!
To add to the variety of reactions here, I think his statement is perfectly reasonable. If USADA thinks he's more useful in the spotlight than not, they should go for it. Use him, and let him try to take some solace from those efforts. I would be curious to know what they have in mind.
I think USADA and USAC's stance on this stuff is nothing short of baffling.

Not so much as an email newsletter listing over-the-counter medicines that might run you afoul of testing, or "ten unwanted side effects of doping"

Nothing.  Except when a guy running a FONDO pays out of his own purse to test.
Im sure that USAC doesn't worry much about local doping, they figure they have bigger fish to fry, a certain Armstrong. That gets them real international ink and they assume, a seat at the big table with WADA and the UCI, every bureaucrats dream. There could be a dozen local doping cases in the next month but as long as national press coverage is reasonably quiet they'll do nothing. At least until the battle of LA is over

the battle of LA
image
Was only a matter of time...


Some pretty weak reporting here.  Both claims that DA was using HGH for his second Battenkill win and that he won it the second time clean.

Meanwhile he's probably loving the notoriety.

Boo.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/08/news/in-search-of-relevance-a-cat-3-turns-to-epo-and-hgh_232611
"Editor’s note: VeloNews reporter Matthew Beaudin sought out Anthony to discuss why he chose to cheat as an amateur. It was Anthony’s hope that if he told his story, others may choose not to dope."

Choose not to dope?  I think the lessons here are: 1. dope without letting the sport take over your life. 2. don't race anywhere they might test within seven days of dosing yourself with EPO. 3. Don't break your leg in three places after a positive A test.  4. If you dope, shoot EPO into your belly fat.  I'm sure I'm missing a few others. 
I think Owens summed it up perfectly, "He's so pro he got caught doping..."

The Mt Everest of local racing.
I didn't like the part that he actually didn't officially fail the test (the B sample was not confirmed apparently) but he chose to admit his guilt.  I'm not overly convinced by that.  For a pro, life and death, contract or not, bills and food on the table, sure, no B test, no fail.  However, the recombinant EPO he probably used does not give false positives by the nature of the test used, only potentially false negatives.  So, whether or not he failed the B test, he still had rEPO in him.  He was caught.  He didn't confess.

Also, neither the 'journalist' or DA mentioned what potential effects this had on the other competitors/NYC amateur racing/his team/others who have a meteoric rise by clean means.  As a result, I see this piece as just a gossip story filling their column as apposed to s constructive piece of writing which may improve our sport.  I suppose that Velo never claimed to have any altruistic motives, but still.

Not sure what I think about local amateur doping yet.  I am personally not angry and don't feel cheated.  It is a shame that people I race against cheat, but I don't know if that matters so much.  Still not sure if I have an opinion on it on the whole.