Local Dopers - Forum Archive

Aug 01, 2012 at 07:19 PM

Yeah, what a completely sneaky, spineless, egomaniacal little fuck this guy is. He's essentially only saying he's sorry and that he only didn't get away with the B sample pass b/c his team finally called him out and the fact he couldn't race for 2 years anyway b/c his leg was so badly broken. How convenient. Now he can play up his rising-from-the-ashes story. Douche. And when he resumes racing he'll still get to say he's a cat 2 or 3 or whatever. He doped to get out of the 4's!

Adam

Aug 01, 2012 at 07:30 PM

I found this very informative. It might be a little sciency (in fact, very), but if you can force yourself through it, it gives a very good explanation of how the test is done and the fallibility of the method.

http://med.kuleuven.be/lbt/publications/revepo.pdf

Ryan J

Aug 01, 2012 at 07:30 PM

And when he resumes racing he'll still get to say he's a cat 2 or 3 or whatever. He doped to get out of the 4's!

Good! Have fun racing the Pro/1/2 at Battenkill as 47-year-old who was never a legit 2 in the first place.

Gonna have to find another way to be relevant, dicktard.

tito

Aug 01, 2012 at 08:40 PM

I think it's safe to say homeboy is gonna avoid high-profile races like Bkill, Catskills, etc. when he returns...he's gonna be slinking around local park races for awhile, IF he even returns to the sport.

Jules

Aug 01, 2012 at 09:15 PM

Personally I think that would be a perfect punishment. He's welcome back but only in the fields he cheated to get into.

Enjoy the Pro123 field as a 47 year old with no talent... or rather, enjoy riding alone forever more.

Jeffrey White

Aug 02, 2012 at 03:21 PM

Interview with Florida Clean Ride Fund guy:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/jared-zimlin-florida-rides-clean

harry bolick

Aug 03, 2012 at 12:05 AM

2aug2012
re: doping

my take, is that i prefer a level playing field &cycling should try to discourage cheaters (dopers: blood/chemical/other) participation in PRO &amateur events, am not naive, so i know there will be cheaters, but less=better &labeled as social/sports pariah will help in leveling field of 'play' which should be 'FUN' @as safe as possible.

-harry4;>

ps.plenty funny&good info above thnx

ian ellis

Aug 03, 2012 at 01:34 AM

I am astounded at the amount of vicious postings aimed at this guy. Actually I'm more appalled than astounded.

mugwump

Aug 03, 2012 at 01:56 AM

you're right. It's not like attacked through the jogger's lane.

(where has Harry been?)

vlad

Aug 03, 2012 at 02:01 AM

Same here. A lot of venom being spewed. People make mistakes. It seems like few are willing to forgive. Like I said when I started the thread, I like the guy. I'm into giving people a chance to redeem themselves.

Dan Reiners

Aug 03, 2012 at 02:22 AM

I agree that some of the venom seems unfounded. He cheated to get out of the Cat4s, he got caught in a Gran Fondo, which makes racing seem dirty.

He gets paraded around because USAC leadership would prefer to tell "redeemed sinner" storylines than admit that there is a problem with doping in amateur racing. If you go through articles of interest thread there is plenty of news about dudes in Boulder and Wisconsin getting popped for doping. Not to mention Bunde and the other dopers. This isn't isolated instances this is rampant doping but the testing is isolated and cheating thrives in willful ignorance.

Jeff Owens

Aug 03, 2012 at 03:00 AM

I think it's completely warranted. Not bc he cheated repeatedly over the course of years, but bc of his behavior since his "confession". We're not talking about someone making *a* mistake. I think it's naive to be so willing to believe him at face value now.

He's still playing you if you believe his intentions.

twoyacks

Aug 03, 2012 at 03:38 AM

I don't think I have ever been in a race with this guy....but if I were and he was juiced, I would be wicked pissed! When you dope you are forcing others to go faster and harder than they normally would. DA taking hgh and Epo put him in position to physically and mentally beat and demean other cyclists. Not acceptable. Lifetime ban for local dopers would put an end to the issue of forgiveness by his "peers". People who race clean are not his peers by the way, we are his victims. There is no "level playing field" argument here. This guy knew he was likely the only cat IIi doping. So in a sense he went fishing with dynamite. Where is the concern for this fellow racer? Don't buy his boohoo story about wanting to fit in and BH throwing him off the team for lack of results either. This guy is a classic narcissist with no regard for this fellow racer. Like every doper he is sorry, sorry he got caught.

Ryan J

Aug 03, 2012 at 04:01 AM

I dunno, I'm seeing the guy called sneaky, douchey, egotistical, a liar ... judgements to be sure - but aren't they well-earned?

Vlad, its not our job to give people a chance to redeem themselves - when people fuck up, they get that chance. But the process of getting square usually involves getting honest with ourselves and others, and it doesn't happen overnight.

But I don't think that's what he's doing. I agree with Jeff completely - to me the statements he's making are still obviously designed for self-preservation. He's still not being honest with himself or anyone else. He's making himself look good.

For me, the redeeming would start with some STFU time. Stop talking BS about it being not about winning and about how you just wanted to be relevant. Give back your winnings, maybe make a donation to CRCA for anti-doping. You cheated to be relevant? Now be irrelevant for a spell; its only fair. Serve your suspension quietly and come back and get your ass kicked by all the guys who didn't dope their way into the Pro123 race. When you've done that, I'll be willing to say you're square with your fellow racers.

twoyacks

Aug 03, 2012 at 11:49 AM

Yes Ryan...if he was spending $1000 a month to cheat....he should give $1000 a month towards a drug testing program. I don't care if it looks like he is throwing money at his problem as money is what is needed to solve THE problem right now = DOPERS. I'm sure CRCA would welcome a cash infusion towards their dope control program. Shen should ask DA if he plans to donate some cabbage....I would love to hear his answer....but the answer will likely be no as others would benefit more than DA and narcissist don't roll that way. Yacks

Unknown

Aug 03, 2012 at 12:32 PM

Random ? If this dude had to cheat to get into Cat 2, what happens if he comes back, does he get relegated back to a 5, or does he have to race in his current Category?

ian ellis

Aug 03, 2012 at 01:02 PM

I am totally against drug testing at local races and if it comes in I'll stop racing.

While the testing may catch the racer juiced on steroids or the person fool enough to inject themselves with EPO, it will also catch the unfortunate person who didn't read the label on their cough syrup bottle and then check that against the USDA list of banned substances.

What if Dan was just finishing up a series of antibotics ? Is he supposed to get a TUE just so he can fight for a few points in the green jersey competition or is he supposed to sit at home ?

mperlberg

Aug 03, 2012 at 01:43 PM

@ Ian

This is a real concern. I think if you read the article from clean ride Florida it is well addressed. Nobody wants to catch cough syrup or asthma inhaler users.

Christian Refakis

Aug 03, 2012 at 02:04 PM

How could he be making himself look good if he's conceding that the reason he doped was to remain relevant to a bunch of other cyclists? This implies he has very little going on elsewhere in his life. The implication strikes me as pathetic and humiliating.

He's single, which at his age is a little sad, and probably has no major camaraderie other than what comes from racing. He admits to doping to leave the 4's. I mean, come on. He would have doped to leave the 5's if it were a results-based upgrade. Alright, so you won Battenkill on the juice. Now what? Seriously, now what. Your BH guys treat you with a bit more respect? After the Kudos are dished out, he gets to drive home wondering, "What would happen if I raced clean?" What a horrible thought to be plagued with after winning.

I'm hardly impressed by this man, and I pity him more than anything else. He lost sight of the fact that cycling (like most sports) is about competing with yourself. I've never won a race and therefore have lost every single race I have entered. However, I still derive a lot of satisfaction from training's rewards: an increase in power and/or a decrease in weight; an overall increase in competitive ability. I also thrill on the strategic aspect of racing.

He's a broken man now, both literally and figuratively. He's most likely talking so much now because people want him to talk. I suspect he'll be gone soon.

I also suspect Anthony is only one of several in our peloton who has cheated. I'm sure our peloton suspects the same. A lot of the anger Anthony is receiving, then, is probably generated from the frustration associated with not knowing who else is cheating.

This news has made my naiveté plain to me. I formerly believed PED use was a sickness confined to the professional arena. I was disappointed to find it crept into the amateur arena as well. I was unaware until this incident that amateurs cheated in NYC races before I was born.

I gotta say, it ruins it a little for me. I was proud to be an amateur racer in part because I thought I wasn't associated with the cheaters.

Kyle Murphy's meteoric rise can only strike me now as highly suspicious. And that's a big shame, because he probably deserves full credit for his results. Right now though, to us, he's what Anthony was before being caught: a BH racer who is crushing it in breaks. How can I be sure he's clean? Of course, I mention Murphy not to accuse him, rather, to demonstrate the unfortunate effect the news has had on my (our) psyche. Racers who deserve their credit will likely be viewed in a skeptical light because of cheaters like Anthony.

mugwump

Aug 03, 2012 at 02:09 PM

I think if you're racing your bike, you can be considered in a community. There are shared activities, goals, and rules. In order for the activity to happen there has to be broad agreement to accept the rules. Certain rules like prohibitions against crossing the line separating the joggers lane or separating oncoming traffic, prohibitions against holding onto cars, skipping laps, are fairly straightforward and relatively easy to adjudicate. Doping, as it's both a fairly clearly defined rule and almost impossible to test for, is one where the main tool we have in preventing it is through our off-bike behavior. I don't know if people are conscious of this or not, but in any community, I think you'll find that the impossible to enforce rules are the ones that people get most upset about. With criminals, it's not like they'll turn in another criminal to the police, so they use other means.

Ian,

I understand your concern, but I think its misplaced. Most anti-biotics are performance inhibitors, not enhancers (maybe a real MD can weigh in here). The problem is more with things like cortisone shots and sudafed. First, cortisone, I can't speak for the quantities needed to test positive, but I think so long as you have a prescription, you're ok (Landis got a cortisone shot before the 2006 Tour, one that probably made a performance difference, and it was ok). My educated guess is that yesterday's Claritin D won't trigger a positive test--first off, the recommended dosage is low, second if you're taking too much you probably won't sleep that night and then you'll be pretty useless the next day anyways. The first problem is that the authorities don't want to share how quickly the stuff flows out of your system, because that could present a moral hazard (aka encourage doping). The second problem is that every busted doper has an incentive to play up the idea of an accidental positive and I'm sure that weighs on anyone tested.

I guess there's a looming third problem. The seeming increased popularity of the "Low-T" diagnosis. Some physicians are prescribing testosterone to middle-aged guys because the docs think this will overcome a believed lack of testosterone.

I also don't think you know how easy it is to check against banned substances. I do it with every medication I've taken for the past 14 years or more. It was a bit harder before there was a searchable online data base. And you don't have to check if it's not race season--no one is discussing out-of-comp tests for amateurs. It's no harder than looking on bikereg for races.

In many ways, by opposing testing at the local level, you should expect such vitriol. By opposing testing, it could be interpreted as you think doping is less serious than racing through the jogger's lane.

Considering the claimed success DA had with drugs, I think it fair to compare the effect as the same as sitting out multiple laps of a road race. I don't think anyone would be comfortable saying that someone who raced 45 miles when everyone else did 60 should be considered the winner of that race. I'm having some trouble with the idea of saying we shouldn't do anything about doping when everyone would disqualify the guy who sat out 15 miles.

And, as a point of comparison, French pro Christophe Bassons took himself out of competition after receiving a cortisone shot.

Unknown

Aug 03, 2012 at 02:12 PM

I'm honestly surprised that folks are surprised that there are people in the local peloton on PED's. PED use is extremely rampant and prevalent in society as a whole, from local athletes, high school and collegiate athlete use, and people just looking to get that edge in the gym, or even just to look better to the opposite (or same) sex.

Christian Refakis

Aug 03, 2012 at 02:30 PM

Footnote: In cycling, 'DA' is an acronym referring to one of the greatest group sets ever made, NOT a rat-bastard cheater!

dstokes

Aug 03, 2012 at 03:24 PM

I strongly urge you guys to read this interview with Jared Zimlin about the Florida Rides Clean Fund. He addresses some of the concerns mentioned above. First, he says that at the amateur level, USADA will work with a rider who tests positive, allowing them to go get a prescription ex post facto if necessary. Second, he addresses the suspicion about riders who are on a tear. After their tests are returned negative, people have to quit whining and train harder to contain them.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2012/jared-zimlin-florida-rides-clean

ian ellis

Aug 03, 2012 at 03:25 PM

Actually I just read the WADA list of substances, it contains lots of instances of the statement "and any substance that acts in a similar way". How are people supposed to know ?

If a class of drug is not mentioned does that mean it is OK ?

Jeffrey White

Aug 03, 2012 at 04:29 PM

I can't imagine testing will end up being a big deal.

Without testing: Win the race, eat the muffins.

With testing: Win the race, piss in the cup, eat the muffins.

Shit, after Pawling I saw Jeff Owens piss in the cup voluntarily.

Jules

Aug 03, 2012 at 04:39 PM

John W has a well penned take on this:

http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/david-anthony-a-hero-for-our-times/

Jules
917-818-1362

On Aug 3, 2012, at 11:25 AM, ian ellis wrote:

Actually I just read the WADA list of substances, it contains lots of instances of the statement "and any substance that acts in a similar way". How are people supposed to know ?

If a class of drug is not mentioned does that mean it is OK ?

Ryan J

Aug 03, 2012 at 04:43 PM

Shit, after Pawling I saw Jeff Owens piss in the cup voluntarily.

White hot

Jeff Owens

Aug 03, 2012 at 04:49 PM

It was green.

John W has a well penned take on this: http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/david-anthony-a-hero-for-our-times/

Jules

Oh this line was good:

"He left his starter dork club and moved up to racing with a big team, aptly named “Comedy Central.”"

Jules

Aug 03, 2012 at 05:02 PM

Why does the color of the cup matter?

Jules
917-818-1362

On Aug 3, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Jeff Owens wrote:

It was green.

Ryan J

Aug 03, 2012 at 05:13 PM

There's a revealing undercurrent in all the DA bashing ... a lotta people apparently don't think its OK to be single at 40!