Kissena Forum Archive

Cyclocross!

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Phillip

remember Marc speaks in Longwinded Hyperbole only.

Yes you can ride a MTB in most races as long as you don't have bar-ends (legally no forward facing handlebars just like a road race), if you move up and decide to race UCI races the tire size matters and you can't ride tires wider than 33mm. 
"Kissena only" please keep within this forum We are working on what may be a Marc approved Supercross location .... and also working Nassau incase the former does not happen.
I can understand allowing mtb in cat 5s, to let people test the waters etc. and not buy a new bike,  but I would think as one moves up the ranks, its disallowed (not the case it seems).  But going back to @Marc's original post, whats the advantage of using a mtb? 

My mountain bike is heavier than my cross bike, and with the barriers,  i could see myself getting bogged down with the extra weight lap after lap.  Of course on a mtb, you could bomb down a hill better and probably corner better too.
@Phillip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4C-gEvZgDQ



http://www.cxmagazine.com/carl-decker-climbs-descends-win-raleighs-midsummer-nights-cyclocross-race-results
http://www.cxmagazine.com/cyclocross-crossover-racing-mountain-bikes Has a good write up of equipment choices. Each CX course is going to be different. In some (most) a cx will be better suited, an mtb will be overkill. In the particular course/ race Marc is talking about( the Raleigh midsummer night cx) had a set of stairs the winner could ride up faster on his mtb then cx equipped folks who had to dismount and remount. Check out the video on page 2 of the second article. http://www.cxmagazine.com/carl-decker-climbs-descends-win-raleighs-midsummer-nights-cyclocross-race-results. Page was po-ed because technically the mtb WAS illegal...but it is a summer time cx race in July, so I think most folks let it go. And they both walked away with equal prize money. Once you do get to the higher levels there are rules against mtb (I believe for elite and higher).

And really, the stair run vs ride, I think had less impact on the race than the MTB being able to bomb the rocky descent in this case. I mean, the MTB flew up those stairs like they weren't even there, but a good dismount/remount ride is pretty damn quick too.

By the way, "run vs ride," is a battle that happens every cross race, and what you find is that the overall speed between the two is so similar by the time you factor in remount time vs slower speed over the barriers.

personally, I think you should be able to use whatever you want and whoever is fastest is the winner. No motors!
For the folks new to cross, take a few hours and think about your fall schedule.  In years past I've missed races I wanted to do because I either didn't know about them or was just too plain burned out to care by then.

There are THREE THINGS you MUST do your first CX season:

1) Epic Yardsale (this one will take care of itself, but for the love of all things holy please be considerate and do it in front of the photographer?
2) Take a handup
3) Behold Handsome Joe in all his PATRIOTIC GLORY as he shreds the field in his stars & stripes pijamas

Here are the races I'm thinking of this year:

Sep 14/15 Catamount VT
Sep 28/29 Gloustah
Oct 5/6 Providence
Oct 12 Whirly Bird
Oct 26 DONUT DERBY
Oct 27 HPCX

November... start praying for April

Before Hotlist gets his ponytail in a knot, I can't do Nittany because I'll be on a beach and I'll be in Boulder for Charm City.

Jules said:




Here are the races I'm thinking of this year:

Sep 14/15 Catamount VT
Sep 28/29 Gloustah
Oct 5/6 Providence
Oct 12 Whirly Bird
Oct 26 DONUT DERBY
Oct 27 HPCX


Whirlybird reg opens tonight at 1215
https://www.bikereg.com/Net/whirlybird-cross2013
Oh shit. I forgot the other totally frustrating part about Cross.  If you want to do well, it's all about the callup, ie: where you are placed in the starting grid.

Sometimes it is based on cross results points, sometimes it is based on series points, and sometimes, damn their eyes it is based on order of registration...
Jules said:
Oh shit. I forgot the other totally frustrating part about Cross.  If you want to do well, it's all about the callup, ie: where you are placed in the starting grid.

Sometimes it is based on cross results points, sometimes it is based on series points, and sometimes, damn their eyes it is based on order of registration...
Jen Nordhem, Ride Brooklyn employee and  Pink Rhino racer  hepped  me to this fact. Accordingly my bedtime tonight is 1216.
Except that sometimes, you stay up and then they do callups based on some other criteria... and you do this

image
Dammit Jules. I have been carefully crafting a list of possible CX races, identifying the ones I definitely want to go to and blam! you list races that aren't even on Bikereg! 

I knew about the unlisted NJ races, but having never races in New England I forgot about Glouster  and Providence and Cycle-Smart. Now I have to re-prioritize my whole schedule! Okay, I really should be thanking you, but this would be a great time for Hotlist or Ragot to impart some wisdom about which races to are worth the 2-4 hour drive. 

While I would love to race them all, I don't want to spend Christmas cuddling my cross bike and divorce papers. What wisdom can you impart on this New England neophyte?


I don't want to spend Christmas cuddling my cross bike and divorce papers.


That is one for the ages!
Straight to twitter.
Just went back to early July and found a lengthy Hotlist analysis of holy week. He called Providence family friendly. That is what I needed. 

Tomorrow is my anniversary. You will hear me say: "Honey, wouldn't it be cool to take the kids to Providence this fall?"
Family Man's CX weekend!
(Happy anniversary)
BTW, What's up with Nittany? Their facebook page and website have not been updated since February or earlier. They have the first weekend in Sept listed but does anyone know if the race is really going to happen?

I should add that the first 15 minutes of my anniversary will be spent registering for a cross race. 

I can't understand why sometimes my wife accuses me of loving my bike more than her.
On a related note....ie the nonexistent maxim (but one that would make good sense) "the couple that goes to cross races together stays together "

Question:

What are cat 4 women's races like?

My GF has a CAADX 6 and is contemplating doing cross after having viewed some youtube footage of mostly pro women's races. Previously, she was thinking about doing roller derby this year . I pointed her towards cycling .....specifically cross. She's really into it but is a bit daunted as she's 5'3'' and 120 lbs and views cyclocross women as "amazons." I think she might have the capacity to "kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out." She's tough as 16 penny nails but doesn't have a cycling background. She was a skateboarder in Chicago and has the oversized right calve to prove it. 

Hotlist in the house offering up some hot tips. Hotlist is not feeling super-snarky at the moment, so Hotlist is going to stick to the facts. Ish. Neither the New England Verge Series, nor the MAC series have 2013 rules in place, but it might be safe to assume that, with regards to call-ups at least, things will stay the same as they were in 2012.

Verge Series Call-up Procedures:

All fields for series races will be lined-up in the starting grid via the following methods:
  • Elite Men, Elite Women - current UCI published rankings, random draw
  • Men 3, Masters 45+ (1-3) Men, Masters 55+ Men, Junior 10-14 - current NECXS series points, promoter discretion.
  • Masters 35+ Men (1-3)/Juniors 15-18 (1-3) & Women 3/4/Master Women 35+ 3/4 - For each group, riders that have received series points during the year will have their finish places added together relative to the field size.  For example, a rider that finishes 1st in a 75 rider group will receive 75 staging points (NOT SERIES POINTS), and a rider that finishes 10th in a 50 rider field will receive 40 staging points.  Riders who do not start will receive 0 staging points.  Riders who start but are pulled from the race will receive a finish place and thus staging points based on when they are pulled.  Riders who start but cannot finish will be assigned 1 less staging point than the last rider who finished.  The rider with the higher staging points will be staged ahead of riders with lower staging points.  
  • Cat 4 Men, Cat 4 Masters 35+ - promoter discretion.

VERY IMPORTANT observation about "promoter discretion" for the Cat 4s. Hotlist reports that all new England races EXCEPT STERLING use crossresults.com rankings for call-ups. So go to bed and dream of deep dish carbon rims and handmade tubulars at 23psi.

FWIW, Sterling first uses Verge series points and for Cat 4s (who do not collect series points), the promoter does "random draw." Last year, Hotlist observed Bertucco's head explode as day 1 he randomly got stared in the 9th row, then on day 2, he was in the 11th row and both days, set world records for slowest first lap as he waited for guys who were doing their very first cross race ever start from the front row.


MAC Series Call-ups:

The call-up protocol for the first MAC Series race of the season for the for all categories (minus the Cat 4 Men) will be based on the previous year’s final rankings as posted on the MAC Series website, followed by order of pre-registration. The call-up protocol for the remaining MAC Series (with exception of the Cat 4 Men) races will be based on the latest MAC Series rankings as posted on the MAC Series website, followed by order of pre-registration.

Call-up protocol for the Cat 4 Men will be based on order of registration.

Note: If you are ranked, but do not pre-register, you forfeit your call-up placement and will be placed on the start grid behind the last pre-registered riders.

VERY IMPORTANT observation about MAC series races. Many, like Nittany, get pretty big turnout, so UNLESS YOU HAVE POINTS AND ARE NOT A CAT 4, skip the decaf on the day when registration opens and be prepared to stay up late to register. This start line position in race fields greater than 50 guys is for reals. It's not a lame excuse for not finishing well we tell each other after the race is over. Also, even though their rule book is conspicuously missing a reference to UCI points with regards to call-ups, they UCI rules over all. So if you have UCI points, they take presidency over MAC series points.


Sleep now.
Fall is almost here... Hotlist has returneded from whence he fleeded.

Hotlist doesn't want everyone to have to sift back through the archives so he'll summarize some of the big New England events now. Before he gets to the races themselves, one of the big draws to these races is that you get to watch big time ACTUAL pros race. I'll attach some pics snapped at Gloucester last year in a later post.

Gloucester...classic, New England seaside location. Very technical course. It's been muddy and rainy every year Hotlist has ever attended. Important note, the promoter is having trouble with the town/community and may have to find a different location for the race this year.

Providence. Family men should choose this race if they have to choose between Gloucester or Providence. This race takes place in a big park that has a zoo, carousel, and two years ago, PONY rides.

Both Gloucester and Providence "tie" on quality/selection of on-site food. Both races are spectator friendly, with slight edge to Gloucester for it's enormous GIANT rock that is almost a mountain that allows you to perch high upon and watch the races unfold from above.

Providence with multiple locations featured on Food Network's "Diners, Dives and Drive-Ins," wins on "away from race site" eating options.

CycleSmart, later in the season is a great race for those of you good at riding slalom style over helacious tree roots. This race traditionally has the largest Kissena turnout of all the New England races. Their kids course is by far the weakest of the bunch. Onsite food options are a tick or two below the others too. BUT, Look Park in Northampton is very close to a darling little New England town with eateries and cutsie shops and antique joints if anyone in your party is into that sort of thing.

Sterling...outside of a fantastic breakfast joint that we found last year with AMAZING cider donuts, there's not too much to recommend for this race. The course itself was respectable, but the location is, the backyard of a local high school, and there's zero extras like food trucks, etc.

NBX, Warwick, RI. Very close to Providence. Actually, this may be Hotlist's favorite race weekend. GREAT COURSE. The "usual" New England food trucks, easy to walk around and catch multiple parts of the spread out course. Plenty of parking. Similar course design/layout/backdrop to both Gloucester and Providence.



From Gloucester 2012:

Hotlist doesn't want everyone to have to sift back through the archives so he'll summarize some of the big New England events now.

And all of this time I was sure that "Hotlist was a lady.


Rick, Family Man Bertucco here. I don't want to engage in stereotyping here, but if your special lady friend was a Chicago skateboarder who was going to do roller derby, I think it's pretty safe to assume that she is plenty tough enough for crossing. It's not a height thing either. Maybe there's some youtube footage of Laura Van Gilder crossing, but she is maybe 5'2" and totally bad ass.

It might be wise though, still for her to dip her foot first in the mud of a smaller "New Jersey" cross race where the field might be 10-20 riders, instead of 50+ though. What's nice though about cross, is that once things get sorted out in the first 2 laps, you're kind of racing, for the most part "against yourself." I mean, in bigger fields, you'll always have your battles with those just in front and behind you, but it's still ultimately, a sport where you just go out and ride as hard as you can and hope that it's good enough. Which it always is. You ride your hardest, you finish where you finish, and you do awesome every time.

Also, consider, that race, maybe YOU DON'T race so you can make sure she's got lots of support when it comes to all the extraneous stuff that can be intimidating/confusing/annoying for the new racer. You know stuff like, registering to race, pinning a number on, pre-riding a course, eating smart (which in cross means: don't eat for like 3 days beforehand, or else you will puke all over the place), cooling down, having a jersey for her to keep from getting too chilly, etc.

I think sometimes when us guys go to races, we get so wrapped up in our own pre-race routine that we forget to be normal human beings to those around us. I routinely ignore certain dudes before a race because I know that are "in the zone" and are just not fit for human consumption. I don't take it personally, I just don't let myself be around that funk.

Hotlist has plenty to say about the races in NE as I'm not a NE racer these days. But here are my $0.02:

1. Attend one of my CX clinics. The first will be on August 24. The second August 31. Apart from Canadian Mike, everyone in Kissena who is going to race CX should attend. You will get better.

2. Practice - you need to find time to practice the skills that you learn at the Clinic(s). Fridays or Mondays are good for this. You don't have to go hard those days, but you do need to make your skills a natural part of your riding. It took me an entire season to incorporate remounts to my racing because I didn't learn proper technique in the beginning. Learn the technique and then make it your own.

3. Equipment - start sorting it out now. I replaced the bearings in one bike yesterday. I have to check the glue job on the tubies, get another set of wheels set up and potentially re-cable the bikes (though they still seem to be working great). It's August, but CX starts in September. Get the gear sorted out now. Oh, and ride it here and there to make sure it works!

4. Training - this goes in line with riding your bike here and there during August. There are four things you need in CX to be competitive (not that being competitive is necessary to make CX the most fun you have on two wheels): 1. Technical Skills (see above); 2. Base fitness (this is where a season of road racing and training are useful, especially those TT efforts from Wednesday mornings); 3. Clip in starts (these are exactly what they sound like and you need to practice foot on the ground, clip in and accelerate like the race is ending, but at the beginning so that you can get going at the start of a CX race and KEEP going for a minute - maybe do 8 of these efforts on Tuesdays instead of sprints; and 4. Short intervals - while the base fitness carries you through, the ability to go HARD/easy, HARD, easy, HARD HARD HARD, is essential to being competitive. To help you here, you want to incorporate two types of intervals into your training - 10sec HARD / 20sec easy - start with a set of 10 (5 min), then work up to 3 sets of 10 with 5 min between sets (work up over three weeks). The other interval is 30s/30s. Again, start with one set of 10 and work up to 3 sets with 5 min rest in between each.

To recap the essential elements of fitness:

1. Base - you need to be getting fit NOW  - not racing, but riding.

2. Clip in starts - 1 min efforts from foot down position.

3. Short intervals - 10s/20s and 30s/30s.

As for Races:

1. Nittany is becoming one of my favorites - it's fun and warm. I've done it twice - 1st time - OH MY was it muddy, 2nd time - OH MY it was dusty. Either way, there are lots of Kissenas here and its a great race.

2. Northampton Cycle-Smart - the first time I was going here was in 2002, but my car died on the way. It took another 9 years to get back and I'm glad I did. Marc's got the description right, but something about the course bothers me as the Masters kick my ass and the course has made me change bikes (thanks Jim and Jeff) both years. However, I like to slay demons and Northampton has those twin demons.

3. Providence - perversely, last year, my son was at my parents for this weekend and I couldn't go because the wife didn't want to go to a CX race. I'm going to prioritize it a bit this year and bring the kid so the wife has to come! 

4. #'s 2&3 = I like NE cross because it represents a new challenge,  I just don't head up that way much.

5. Town Hall - that was fun and HARD last year. Good food and beer after.

6. HPCX - it's close, its fun, what's not to like (other than Sandy hitting the day of last year).

7. SuperCup - our race - I'll likely be helping to setup the course, brining my son in to reset it Saturday evening (never to early to get the kid doing course design) and showing up again Sunday to support the race. Its the thing that ALL of us should put on the calendar as a MUST attend - not just for racing, but to make it the kick ass, awesome race that Kissena should be proud of promoting. Josh and Mike should probably start calling for volunteers soon. 

8. No matter how many or how few races you do, or what level you do them at, have fun. That's what I love most about CX - it doesn't matter for the most part. I found that when I was doing well in a series, I started to feel compelled to show up to every race and it took lots of fun out of it. Now as I bounce around series' a bit more, I find myself having a better time. But truth be told, I've made sure to have enough MAC points to assure a decent start at Nittany in the Masters race ;-)