I'm going to kick the dead horse and remind you Jeff that early versions of Powertap were pretty bad – shoddy bearings, water in the electronics, lots of firmware updates, pairing with someone else's Garmin at start of race.

Sky is sticking with them for 2016.

Marc Bertucco said:

I don't like that my Stages meter tells me that I crank out 1800 watts on active recovery rides.

How often do you manually calibrate your Stages?  By your PowerTap head unit or via a phone?
Have you updated your firmware?

JohnMalcolmson said:

- DC Rainmaker has great Stages analysis... bottom line is Stages stands up a lot better than Quarg or PT when temperatures change (better algorithms) and is very good the rest of the time:
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/06/stages-review-update.html
- Carbon crank options hitting winter 2015/16 and spring.
- Redesigned aero form factor and strengthened battery door.

Not so fast.

The review was written in 2013. Quarq has updated their firmware four times since the review was written.  I think PT has updated their firmware as well.  I bet temperature compensation has been improved quite a bit.

I also disagree with the first missive of white

Jeffrey White said:

The Stages are junk. I would never recommend the product to a friend or teammate.

Quality seems to be improving.  John didn't go far enough in pointing out that PowerTap actually went out of business and was then resurrected before the quality went to the point that it's still going strong today.  

In terms of sprinting value, I think every additional second, it gets better.  Remember, it's not the accuracy that's so important, but the consistency.  If you're right-leg dominant, the numbers probably will be consistently even or a bit lower with a Quarq or SRM, and if you're left-leg, then consistently higher relative to a Quarq or SRM, and probably higher than a PT.  As for track, the spikes shouldn't really be that great, thus any sprinting liability is probably minimal except for match sprinters.  

In terms of portability, and crank standards, I tend to disagree.  Shimano is so dominant that their cranks can either work or be adapted to work on almost any frame currently on the market (there are adapters for BB30, PF30, BBright, BB386EVO, and they're native to BB86, 90, 92).  If you'd want a single crank arm for travel, I'd recommend a Shimano 105--it should work with any of the Shimano road thru-axle cranks.  (but if not, I'm still selling my PT wheel, though it's set up for either Shimano/SRAM 8/9/10, or Campy 9/10/11)

Wow, I duck out of the forum for a couple of days and miss a scorcher of a thread.

Ok I've used and abused a crazy number of power meters in past five or six years:

Powertab hub
SRM
Quarq
Stages

I have to say the worst of the lot was the power tap hub (horrific PITA for battery changes, locked into a single wheel, shit software and worse customer service - and remember when ANT+ was an upgrade they made you pay for?) and a requirement to zero it every ride.

Second to the PT in crappyness has (have?) been my two stages; mostly due to dropped signals - one reason I upgraded to an 8 sensor Garmin head unit. I just lose connection and get no readout more frequently than I ever have before.

Quarq and SRM have been gold, basically. The latter is horribly overpriced, but very consistent.

As for dual sided measurements - yes it's a nice number to have but I've not seen any studies that show equalizing (removing) your left/right imbalance makes you stronger/faster and have heard mutterings it might be detrimental.

All that aside, I'm still fat & slow. Go figure.

@Jules With your newer Garmin is Stages working now or still getting dropouts? 

Did this help or just frustrate further? ... http://support.stagescycling.com/support/solutions/articles/1000124358-recommended-settings-garmin-edge-500-head-unit

JohnMalcolmson said:

@Jules With your newer Garmin is Stages working now or still getting dropouts? 

Did this help or just frustrate further? ... http://support.stagescycling.com/support/solutions/articles/1000124358-recommended-settings-garmin-edge-500-head-unit

Jules,
     I was wondering if it was the battery moving around in the case.

Frustrates further, TBH. Shit just has to work.

mugwump said:

In terms of portability, and crank standards, I tend to disagree.  Shimano is so dominant that their cranks can either work or be adapted to work on almost any frame currently on the market (there are adapters for BB30, PF30, BBright, BB386EVO, and they're native to BB86, 90, 92).  If you'd want a single crank arm for travel, I'd recommend a Shimano 105--it should work with any of the Shimano road thru-axle cranks.  (but if not, I'm still selling my PT wheel, though it's set up for either Shimano/SRAM 8/9/10, or Campy 9/10/11)

You know what part fits onto every single road bike in the modern world? That's right, the pedal. And no, that Shimano crank arm will not work on my Sram crank. But the great thing with PowerTap is that if you neeeeeed to stick with your absurdly finicky Speedplay system, you can get their chainring system, which is gives you double-sided power! Have one of the multitude of crank systems that is not compatible with that? Get a hub.

Stages, while better than nothing, does not stack up.

For someone who doesn't actually ride a bike I actually have a collection of powermeters that I can compare and contrast (2 x stages, P2M, SRM and Powertap G3).
I can go into detail if people care but in summary the stages are the most problematic.

Note I said problematic. Not Junk. They work accurately for the purposes I have them for (recovery, endurance, tempo rides out for tea and cake. Too much cake probably.).

However they have a habit of unpairing themselves from my Garmin 510. Sometimes requiring pairing manually by entering the ANT code). The battery expires after a single ride in the rain. Both of those are frustrating, especially if before starting a ride I have to re-pair the unit. After that though the recording or power data is fine. It tracks my SRM OK.
As I say it has quirks that are frustrating but for the price they do a good job.
I got my stages before we had the redbeard deal. So I paid $800. That is 20% of the cost of my SRM. And it performs about 70% as well.

Didn't realize I'd set off a firestorm.

Given the late date and we need to get Jeff a power meter we're going to stick with Stages for another year.  Primary reason is this:

Mark Taylor said:

FWIW
I don't use a power meter, but would like not to have to buy new kit ,because of a sponsor change 

I'll continue to survey the landscape and perhaps for the 2017 season we'll make a change. 

FWIW - my stages has been good. I too get drops from interference over the ANT protocol. I noticed last spring that when riding indoors the microwave (if running) would cause a drop via ANT but not via Bluetooth. So I will get drops within NYC but less likely outside of urban areas. The other thing to note is that you should program in the ANT ID of the Stages unit into the head-unit to avoid unnecessary drops.

I too have a PowerTap. It had to go in to service the bearings and electronics on a couple of occasions. It is pretty solid but not without its issues too. 

What is the anticipated price of a stages meter?

Scott Kuhlke said:

What is the anticipated price of a stages meter?

All your tears.

Scott Kuhlke said:

What is the anticipated price of a stages meter?

Scott, FWIW, there's a link on the left side of the forum page that has current/past "Sponsorship Opportunities."

This is what we got last year:

Stages order details. If you'd like a Stages power meter for the upcoming season, please place your order on the following Google Sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D3Jc2hKQEo7qwOea3rvISRlPYEtQ1XIfEpql6lQo72Q/edit?usp=sharing

It should open on the Fall/Winter 2015 tab, but double check. You will only be able to edit that sheet.

I'll post today or tomorrow how long the ordering window will be open, but expect it to be about 10 days from now - order will go in just before Xmas. I'll reconfirm that the discount is the same as in past order windows - just as Marc described above.

$434.99 for 3/4/5's (Ultegra)  

Plus tax?

Hey Guys and Gals,

I'll be racing for the first time this season and am interested in
getting a Stages power meter (Rival).

Two questions:

1. Do I still qualify for the Cat 5 (25%) discount if I don't have a
season under my belt? The Rival Oct is on closeout on the Stages site
$400 msrp.

2. Can anyone recommend a head unit?

Cheers,

Jake

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 10:56 AM, JohnMalcolmson
wrote:
> $434.99 for 3/4/5's (Ultegra)
>
> Plus tax?
>
> --
> Reply to this email directly or follow the link below to check it out:
> http://kissenacycling.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/81919#Comment_81919
>

Jacob

the stages rival is a great deal - especially given the discount. 

To to answer your questions - yes, you qualify for the cat 5 discount (as long as you are a member in good standing - I.e. Paid up)

most at people will point you to the Garmin 500. It's the most commonly used unit and goes for about $150-200 (without hr and cadence sensors). The power tap joule gps is good, but a small player compared to garmin

Patrick 

Thanks Patrick. Much appreciated.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:09 PM, PatrickG
wrote:
> Jacob
>
> the stages rival is a great deal - especially given the discount.
>
> To to answer your questions - yes, you qualify for the cat 5 discount (as long as you are a member in good standing - I.e. Paid up)
>
> most at people will point you to the Garmin 500. It's the most commonly used unit and goes for about $150-200 (without hr and cadence sensors). The power tap joule gps is good, but a small player compared to garmin
>
> Patrick
>
> --
> Reply to this email directly or follow the link below to check it out:
> http://kissenacycling.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/81924#Comment_81924
>

Jacob, the 500 is still perfectly usable but the model is getting pretty long in the tooth.  If you have the scratch I'd suggest going with the latest 520 model.

The 500 is great.  When my screen started going blank I looked up how to fix it and followed the complicated instructions to a T.  I knock it on the ground really hard and restart it.  Works like a charm.

Garmin 500 or 520. I guess other computers work too, but they are kinda a joke in comparison.

I use a post-it note on my stem that says "GO HARDER IDIOT!" and "YOU STILL HAVEN'T RIDDEN FAR ENOUGH" and that covers my power and distance tracking needs.

I'm fond of my Joule GPS+. It's a bit bulky/chunky compared to the Garmin offerings, but has a screen that is highly customizable to put the metrics you want in front of you.

www.dcrainmaker.com goes into depth when he reviews these things. Couldn't hurt to check 'em out there first.

Get the Garmin 520!

JillSink said:

Get the Garmin 520!

I agree. It's magnificent.

If you can Skype and it makes a flat-white I'm there.

Jules said:

My solution is lighter, only 0.1 gram. That is like 100x heavier, not even counting the heavy duty mounting brackets (tape) that the Megawatts brand uses.

Garmin 510 also works very well