Kissena Forum Archive

Bicycle Tech/Gear Discussion Thread

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Dura Ace no longer has a mechanical. I think Ultegra does, not 100% sure
Shimano is walking away from mechanical road drivetrains at the high end, which includes Ultegra. Indeed, what was arguably the best all-around higher-performance mechanical road groupset value on the planet is no more. Shimano will continue to manufacture and sell 11-speed mechanical Ultegra groupsets for some undetermined amount of time 
It seems like the death knell of mechanical shifting would have come with bigger fanfare.
74 rear cog MoFos!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z6aY_AsoRM
So, got a quarq power meter for my cyclocross bike... supply and stock is low, but redbeard hooked me up with a quarq dfour and a sweet wolf tooth ring.

Decided to install it myself, so started my latest foray into the rabbit hole that are bottom brackets in 2021. 

This is a rant post. btw ;)

Simple enough high level: remove current Praxis crank and bottom bracket and install a new SRAM dub bottom bracket and the quarq crankset. Already an argument could be made, why would we need to change bottom brackets? but oh well...

TLDR: There are NO bottom brackets standards.

In fact, manufacturers go out of their way to make theirs differently and avoid trouble or legal action by other brands. 
  • The crux comes with praxis M30 cranks and their thread fit bottom bracket.
  • First step is to remove the cranks (easy) and that bb (easy but not trivial)
  • You need a 12 notch tool to unthread the drive side
  • Of course, their notches are proprietary, so is not like the threaded bb tools you have are going to work
  • Praxis sells the tools in batches of two because you want to hold the non drive side in place while you unthread the drive side.
  • Praxis includes a free water bottle with the order, they understand the pain
  • So unthread the drive side, but then knock out the non drive side
  • I have two of the three cup bearing removal tools Park makes
  • Of course neither of my two will work for the praxis size
  • So..., I am now the owner of all three cup/bearing removal tools park makes
  • BTW, did I mention, the Praxis M30 spindle is 30 mm on the drive side and 28 mm on the non drive side. Why isn't it 30 mm all the way across? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ read the TLDR
  • Ok praxis removed
  • Now I need to install the dub BB 
  • I realize quickly that the dub bb I have is too long -- it is 72mm for MTB, rather than 68mm for road
  • No worries, all I need is to replace the little plastic tube between the two cups, this one is too wide, just need the road sized one
  • Ilya explains something different via email, which I don't understand because it is not logical
  • Turns out SRAM makes only one size of the little plastic tube, if you need a different size you need to change the full non drive cup (which includes the bearing). Why? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Oh wait wait... there's more... I have a cool Wheels Mfg press tool, that has all kind of cup/bearing drift sizes... except, you guessed it, not one for DUB
  • the DUB spindle is not 30 mm, is not 29 mm, it is 28.99 mm, SRAM is not even shy about it, they did this so they would not get sued by who knows who -- yup that's right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Wheels Mfg sells the drift sizes, I order them, they did not send a free water bottle
  • To grease or not to grease or to loctite, that is a whole other rabbit hole
  • Another challenge with press fit bottom brackets is that if you get lucky or unlucky the bb might or not fully fit your frame... so grease, or loctite need to be used, but literally there is no way to know which is better until the thing starts creaking while riding
  • I use a tiny dab of Phil Wood grease
  • ok press the thing in
  • install the cranks
  • not even gonna get into how SRAM adjusts the preload, at this point one is just happy it all works
  • Crank looks awesome brand new
  • SUCCESS
  • go ride cunningham all rusty, omg I totally scuff the cranks up on their first ride, haha oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • and if you actually read this, kudos, this post is worst than removing and installing bottom brackets
@eloy

I feel your pain.  I have that Wheels bearing press tool as well.  Most annoyingly, and I just checked, DUB is not included in the "universal drifts" these days.   SRAM says various things about DUB, but I'm sure DUB was a way to both get around patents, create patents, and keep people locked in to the SRAM universe.  

One of the things I hate, hate, hate about painted/anodized/finished crank arms is getting them scuffed. For aluminum arms, it's just fugly.  For carbon, it has the potential to lead to failure.  

Of course, someone found a 'solution.'  Stickers.  Just to take away some of the weight savings you gained.

https://crankskins.myshopify.com/collections/clear-crankskins-sram

I hope you treated yourself to a serious reward after that. Congrats on avoiding this

https://youtu.be/DFzteK_y1b4
@eloy that story sounds rough (and just reinforces my decision to not take that task on and default to Redbeard instead). New crankset looks fire though!
James Huang, makes an argument that 105 DI2 is coming, but mostly talks about how/why mechanical shifting might soon disappear.

https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/shimano-105-di2-r7100-is-coming/

SHIMANO 105 DI2 R7100 IS COMING

The death of Ultegra mechanical can only mean one thing.



Check this bar design by Ribble. The shifters bolt directly onto the bar and "wake-generating" tops direct air around the body to make them Super Uber Duper Aero™... they claim you save so much time over 40km that you can go to the pub and have a beer instead.  =)  
 https://cyclingtips.com/2021/08/ribble-ultra-sl-r-aero-bike-gets-you-home-three-minutes-faster/
You know if they also used S-Works cotton turbos with latex tubes instead of those Contis there would be enough time to do the laundry, cook dinner and give the kids a bath.
yes, but with the s-works cotton you could only ride 200 km, and then have to buy a new bike

If interested, GCN has a video about that bike, don't know if it is any good, as I didn't watch it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZxpDdvYIaQ
I saw something about the bars being textured because Ribble doesn't want you to wrap them and inevitably mess with the aero-ness of it

I've been seeing those Winspace Hyper X wheels mentioned online quite a bit. I wrote them off for some time, but then Hambini comes out with wind tunnel testing numbers that position them as faster than some 80mm wheels from better known brands (Zipp, Enve, etc). I even read some mention that they could be the OEM supplier for brands like Hunt.

Hambini went on to rave about the build quality as well.

Anyone know much about them or know someone who has experience racing on them?
I've been seeing those Winspace Hyper X wheels mentioned online quite a bit. I wrote them off for some time, but then Hambini comes out with wind tunnel testing numbers that position them as faster than some 80mm wheels from better known brands (Zipp, Enve, etc). I even read some mention that they could be the OEM supplier for brands like Hunt.

Hambini went on to rave about the build quality as well.

Anyone know much about them or know someone who has experience racing on them?
John
     I"ve never seen them in person.  I'm leery of such wheels, considering very few have reviewed them and wind tunnel numbers are only a part of what matters.  I also haven't seen enough to know how much to trust those carbon spokes.  I'm sure they're not as bad as the Fiber Flights of the '90s, but I want more evidence they aren't going to explode when contact is made.  
Cam Nichols had a short series on YouTube where he bought a winspace and compared it to better known brands. Wheels were an interesting issue for him (I think he got them sorted out eventually but the build quality straight from the factory was questionable)

https://youtu.be/uxeE0XFO7OI
I wouldn't exactly trust what Hambini says on things.  His track record is iffy at best.
Other than some very bad judgement around language where is the problem with his track record?
I’m wondering the same thing. He published a very well researched test that he helped conduct on the aerodynamics of a wide range of wheels. His analysis of the results are extremely thorough and based on a clear understanding of fluid dynamics and aerodynamics. It’s a very no BS and rational paper.

The only people who didn’t like it were Flo and only because he showed that their data was extremely flawed.
I’m wondering the same thing. He published a very well researched test that he helped conduct on the aerodynamics of a wide range of wheels. His analysis of the results are extremely thorough and based on a clear understanding of fluid dynamics and aerodynamics. It’s a very no BS and rational paper.

The only people who didn’t like it were Flo and only because he showed that their data was extremely flawed.
I have trouble with Hambini.  I don't watch him much, but part of what leaves me uncomfortable is that for all of his disparaging (I'm being kind), I don't feel he provides the transparency I'd like to see to trust his word.  How about citations, examples, links?  I also don't like that he trashes with a pretty broad brush and simultaneously doesn't admit to the limitations and caveats of his own work.  I think he detracts from his own analysis by spending time in "totally destroying" mode.    

I find him extremely transparent. Other than his over the top language he's been a breath of fresh air.
Jules said:
I find him extremely transparent. Other than his over the top language he's been a breath of fresh air.
I spent way too much time reading his site.

I think we should be wary when he doesn't reveal his full name, the exact nature of his expertise, and who he works for.  This would be not be important if he were more thorough in his explanations, but he does fall back on touting his bona fides in lieu of actual evidence many times, and since he claims his bona fides are what make him better, he should reveal them.  And considering he alleges he's using his employer's wind-tunnel, let's know who it is and what about it makes it a better wind tunnel than Specialized's.

I went into his aero testing explanation.  It is lacking on many levels.  He starts with an assumption. that the real world of bike riding doesn't mimic the wind tunnel tests most people are doing.  That's fine.  But if he thinks so, and he has all this knowledge, incredibly bright co-workers, and a wind tunnel, then he should be able to show  us that the results he gets are more predictive of what actually happens in the real world.  So, if he claims that a certain wheel will result in a certain amount of drag at a certain speed, prove it--have the test and then put someone on a bike show  us that wheel X is faster than Y.  Conversely, he could show that the wind tunnel tests don't work in real life.  

His data gathering is also similarly vague.  He claims he had two test groups of local cyclists gathering data.  one riding at 30kph and 50kph.  How many?  Where were they riding?  how did he gather the data? let's see a bike with testing apparatus on it.  How many local cyclists can ride 50kph?  We have a pretty big bike community in NYC, I doubt there are more than a few, maybe none, that can ride a lap of Prospect in six minutes, even on a TT bike.  

I went into a tangent about his battle with Flo Cycling.  It's incredibly stupid, filled with claims from him that are either irrelevant or he can't prove.  Furthermore, he produced a letter that he claims is from Flo's attorney, which seems to be faked.  It certainly can't be verified.  
Hambini is a mysoginist prick. He might represent every thing wrong with cycling. Saying that some product from a big company is crap does not make him good. I am saddened to learn that anyone here enjoys his videos.
eloy said:
Hambini is a mysoginist prick. He might represent every thing wrong with cycling. Saying that some product from a big company is crap does not make him good. I am saddened to learn that anyone here enjoys his videos.
Here are two things that Eloy might be referencing

https://ridewriterepeat.com/2020/07/07/six-bloopers-of-being-a-woman-in-the-cycling-industry/

https://road.cc/content/news/shockjock-vid-seeks-refute-sexism-claim-reinforces-it-272869

Neither is about the quality of his analysis.  But as I wrote above, I find it lacking.  It can seem kind of good, but looking through it, I think not.
I don't agree on the quality of his analysis. @Wump You've pointed to insufficiency but I've yet to hear him being shown incorrect. My take on it is that the topics are much more complex than the marketing lets on and his efforts are shedding light on that. Again, nobody has come back with evidence refuting him, and I can't get too bent out of shape that he doesn't go the extra mile with his own work. It's already quite a lot more than anyone has offered.

As for his conduct; I can't/won't pretend to defend that. I don't imagine carving out a career in UK engineering as a South Asian immigrant is a bed of roses, but that's no excuse. He's had (and shared) his own fill of abuse.

j
nobody has come back with evidence refuting him

Because it is not worth anyone's time. This guy is an active jerk. He is part of what's wrong with the world, he is a troll, the best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them.

eloy said:
nobody has come back with evidence refuting him

Because it is not worth anyone's time. This guy is an active jerk. He is part of what's wrong with the world, he is a troll, the best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them.

I don't think so. People refute everything and everybody they can; the fact that the most people can complain about is his personality is an important tell.
So... last Thursday decided to cut my steerer tube...,

Join me for another installment of Eloy breaks bicycles the night before a race.

This is a half rant post, btw.
  • Plan is to drive to Baltimore on Friday, you know, a big national level race
  • So... let's cut some tubes the afternoon before. What could go wrong?!?
  • Consider, specially that I had this bicycle since 2019, with the stem chimney since ride one
  • In any case, the aesthetics of my stem chimney had been getting to me lately
  • I have all the necessary pieces, had them for years, a cool saw guide, and 32 tpi blades, etc...
  • Ok, let's do it!
  • The challenge, not often mentioned, is that on modern bikes, with internal routing and hydraulics brake lines, well, you can remove the fork from the frame, but you can't really detach the fork and frame, at least not without adding hours of unrelated cable routing and brake bleeds
  • the solution for most bike shops and mechanics is to cut the fork in the frame
  • Not great, but it totally can work
  • About one hour is spent figuring out how to remove the specialized steerer expander plug... it is a head scratcher... 
  • a youtube video has some tips, but somehow doesn't mention that if you follow their instructions, the bottom of the expander will end deep down in the fork
  • whatever, I figure it out, remove the expander
  • I do one thing very right: I measure like 20,000 times, leaving a little extra on top ;)
  • Set up outside so that carbon dust flies in the wind
  • Set up and tape up a trash bag all around the frame and headset, so the carbon does not get anywhere in the frame or headset
  • Similarly, some paper towel inside the fork steerer to catch any dust heading that way
  • the fork is not as steady as it would be off the bike and in a clamp
  • but the cut goes well, looks better than the factory cut. hotness.
  • a little 320 sand paper to smooth it all out
  • insert the expander back
  • wait wait wut?
  • the expander wont fit all the way back in!!
  • it hits some imperfections at the bottom of the fork, past the headtube.. ugh
  • freak out moment, as now I can't put any of this back together
  • a long search in my parts bin, uncovers an FSA expander
  • phew!
  • it works, but, um, still concerned the FSA expander doesn't reinforce the fork like the specialized expander
  • i am guessing the reinforcement is important, but oh well...
  • this will have to do for charm city
  • put it all back together
  • this looks sharp
  • let's go race bikes!
  • the worst that can happen is that I break the fork, haha
  • in any case, setup survives a weekend of hard core racing, and frankly it is probably ok forever
  • still, to get this out of my head, Monday, post race, spent a few minutes cutting the specialized expander so it wont hit the bottom of the fork
  • is not totally perfect, as the bottom plug doesn't sit inside the expander tube, still bites into it, so it is good for the needed application
  • fit it all in, nice!
  • my part bin had a super cheap carbon top cap that is like days lighter than the original specialized
  • put it all back
  • sharp!
  • ok, not sure when yet, but let's go race bikes!!
If you read all the way here, let me know, I might owe you a beer. 

cheers!

bag that carbon dust:

oh uh, wut? fork imperfections ugliness:

wont fit:

nice cut, tho:

another day cutting more things:

ugly top cap, but lighter, so faster:

barely any chimney in the baltimore morning sun:

That is a crazy smooth cut; and I’m jealous. This year my bars seem a little further away than last…