Adam said:

Nooooooob question!!

Can someone(s) tell me what the crack is with mountain bikes.  What do I need a front suspension/full travel bike for?  How much travel do I need?  What are the bikes used for (what bike for downhill, what for cross country, what for trails)?  What is cross country??  What are the most common types of race around here and what is the best type of bike for them.  Or, is it really a horses for courses sort of thing and no one bike will ever be suitable.

I would like to get a mountain bike so off season I can piss about and have fun on some trails out here on LI, without being as number/data obsessed as I am on my road bikes.  I would also consider some racing so wouldn't mind a bike that can do both.

Also, when is "mountain bike" race season?  All year, same as 'cross...

Impart wisdom now please.

Wait, wut? No wisdom? That blows

For long island no suspension is necessary. Nor are gears. 29er is fine. So that really means for the island. Get a CX bike.

There is the wisdom.

This sounds really cool...  alas, im registered for bubblecross the next day tho.  ugh!

@Gwynna- Well said...err written.

@Adam- As Gwynna suggested, the Campmor H2H series is an excellent set of races, all within roughly 1.5 hour drive of NYC.  I can give some several year old insight on a number of the courses in the Series. (I believe Marc Bertucco and Philip Maronilla did a couple of the H2H races this past summer.)  Hit me up about it in the Spring when you know which you're considering doing.

@Gwynna and @Adam-I tend to do a bunch of mountain rides mid-winter--as long as ground conditions permit. It's warmer under cover of the trees than out in the wind in 9w.  : ) You guys can let me know if you want to check out some of the riding spots in the coming months.  Or I can just list them out for you if you want to explore on your own.

So, here's what I discovered about MTB racing and equipment this past late summer when I took to the trails in efforts to make up for lack of good crit racing around here.

With the exception of some of the region's races, "Old school" 26-inch mountain bikes are not really up to the job. Almost everyone is racing either full-suspension XC bikes 29-ers or hard tail 29-ers. This gives them a SIGNIFICANT advantage over the courses around here which tend to be full of rocks and roots.

Neil knows the courses of most of the races around here though and I intend to use him as a resource next year when I take to the trails again...

JP and I had an interesting discussion about the region and the natural terrain and course design. And what it boiled down to was this...rocks and roots (like dust and thorns for Arizona) are par of the course. And when he raced the VERY SAME VENUES years and years and years ago, the courses were mostly fire-road/jeep trail fun. But today, it appears that promoters are designing courses for the bikes of today and bragging about how FEW fire-roads and how MANY single-track descending bombing sections they have in their races. And if you want to go fast downhill, full-suspension is the best way to do it. And if you need to go fast (i.e. you plan to race) through single track absolutely covered with "shark-fin" rock wedges, some combination of full suspension and/or 29-inch wheels is practically mandatory.

In summary, if you currently have no off-road bike and are going to purchase a MTB for your stable, I'd look for a dual suspension XC bike probably with 29-inch wheels, and you'll have the right tool for any job around here. If you, like me, already have an old-school 26-inch hard-tail bike, and love it, and don't have room for yet another bike, there are a few races and PLENTY of trails that are a-okay for off road riding fun. The courses of the Taconic 909 and one that is literally just across a fire road from that course, are relatively close and very forgiving for old-school 26-inch hard-tails. I also rode some really nice trails up in Ithaca, NY that didn't destroy my bike. I'm sure there's more like that too.

One thing I didn't like about the h2h races, they never posted my results to USAC. I emailed them and no response. Oh well. Still it was fun racing the trails.

Bummer Phillip. Yeah, there was also this other weird oddity that doesn't really matter, but all the races I did used these sticker timing chips placed on our helmets. Which led me to believe that we would get something cool like lap times. Alas no. Seems like a waste of technology in retrospect.

Related, I think it would be awesome if they started using chips in CX and posted lap times. Honestly, speaking as a sometimes triathlete, pouring through splits post race was one of the things that made competing in that sport fun.

I wish - no bike and no lights. And it's been more than 10 years since I did a night ride. Sounds great though.

mtn biking in esopus ny!  I am putting this out there on the off chance someone might be in the neighborhood and want to do some nasty single track this weekend at Shawpeneak Ridge, which is about 10 min south of Kingston, NY.  I will be up there, and avoiding trees and boulders and generally scaring the bejesus out of myself.  Would like to have someone around for ambulance calls etc.

@Adam- The only things that I would add to Marc's analysis of equipment is that: (1) a new MTB wheel size standard between 26" and 29"  has struck over the past couple of years, which -- as I'm sure JP can attest to from his most recent Interbike experience --  is being heavily touted by the industry.  The standard is referred to alternately as 27.5" or 650b and it sits betweeen the snappy "traditional" 26" mountain bike wheel and the more sluggish ride-over-everything 29" standard.  And while this is all largely driven by marketing hype, I've now spent time on all three standards and think there's some merit to the 27.5"/650b-wheeled designs.  I'm a miniscule 5'6", so while the 29" wheels do allow me to ride over stuff using less body english, the geometry on 29" wheeled bikes has never felt right for me and getting the 29" up to speed for short bursts requires more lablor on a 29" wheel (retaining mometum once achieved however is easier with big wheels). The marketing hype says that you get the "best of both worlds -- the snappy handling and acceleration of a 26" wheel and the ride over everything sensibility of a 29" wheel--with the new 27.5"/650b standard--but of course that's not exactly true--27.5"/650b just a good compromise between the two (with alll of the positives and negatives that the word 'compromise' brings with it).  All by way of saying that that if you're looking at a new mountain bike and your 5'10" or under I would first look at a 27.5" wheeled bike. If you're taller than that check out a 29er. (2) I generally agree with Marc that full suspension bikes make real sense on rocky rooty technical courses, but there are still a lot of folks who rip those courses up on hardtails (i.e., front suspension only) with no problem and there's certainly a school of thought out there which says that full supension makes up for sloppiness and so if you start mountain biking on a hardtail you develop better handling technique and an eye for picking better lines which will translate down the linewhether you eventually ride a hardtail or a full suspension bike. (3) As with everything else in the equipment world, a lot of this comes down to cost.  There's always some kind of trade off between cost, weight, quality, and features.  So for instance, if I were buying a mountain bike now with an eye toward the local race series and I had $3,500-5,500 to spend for a new bike I could find an upper mid-level quality short travel (3-4") full suspension 27.5" light enough to race in that price range.  However, if my budget were more modest, say $1,750-2,500 I would definitely go for a high quality hardtail 27.5/650b or 29er (rather than a lower level quality heavier full suspension bike). Obviously, what's important for this calculus is (a)money to spend, (b) whether your intention is to race or not, and (c) where you expect to be riding. (3) All the foregoing stuff refers to xc MTB riding/racing--where weight and efficiency are the focus in terms of equipment.  At the other end of the spectrum, there's the downhill discipline which requires bikes with long travel suspension, laid back angles, and ultra heavy duty build.  Downhill bikes are incredibly fun to bomb on on down steep technical downhills, but weighing 35-50 lbs with energy-sapping longtravel suspesion are absolute torture to climb on--which is why downhill courses virtually always have some sort of lift service back to the top of the mountain--whether ski gondola or truck shuttle.  Of course now, in part due to rider/promoter creativity and part due to the bike industry marketing machine, there is a new race disciplne referred to as "enduro" which purports to sit between the xc and downhill worlds.  Generally, these are long-ish races over mountain ranges where you need a bike that is light and efficient enough to climb on, but with a premium on the ability to go fast on technical downhills.  I don't think that scene has developed as much here in the northeast as it has in alpine Europe, the mountains states and the west in the U.S.  (4) With all of that having been said if you like mountain biking (and find that you have the time and money to spend getting to the trails/races), whatever you buy now probably won't be your last bike.  I think you should feel free not to get alienated, intimidated confused or priced out of the market and buy a hardtail that fits, whatever the wheelsize, whether new or used, take it a few times to ride, perhaps do a few races, and then decicide your priorites and which way you want to go with all of this.

@Adam-As a hopefully last installment of today's tome, as Marc suggested there are some places around here where you can easily ride or race a hardtail or even a fully rigid bike easily. A few of them are:

• Almost anything on Long Island (as as Eric Ragot suggested)
• Lewis Morris Park (N.J.)
• Allaire (N.J)
• Stewart (Newberg, N.Y. [Orange County])
• Graham Hills (Westchester, N.Y.)
• Hartschorne-Huber Woods (New Jersey [Monmouth county])
• Mianus (Connecticut)

If you don't have a car, off the top of my head, you can take trains to Graham hills (small and not techincal) and Blue Mountain (mostly techincal), both in Westchester.  You'll have to check with Metro North abdout scheduling and the ability to bring bikes on the trains. 

Good grief, there's such a thing as a full suspension 9'er?  How large is that bike?

@Joaquin - Since when have you let a trifling thing like no bike stop you?  The Halloween costume is more important for this event anyway.  We can make something out of cardboard that makes you look like a guy riding a bike and then you can run the whole course. 

Neil...awesome info and perspective. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience!

@McKay-Im jealous. We'll be up around there riding the weekend of November 1st.  If you're up there then, and want riding company lemme know. (P.S.-Have you ever ridden Jockey Hill or Onteora lake jyst east of there ouside Kingston?)

@Adam-In the interest of thoroughness, another good hardtail riding/racing spot is Lippman in Kerhonkson, NY (Ulster County).  Nearby there, and far less challenging, but very scenic is all of the riding around Lake Minnewaska (just outside of New Paltz).  Minnewaska is all carriage roads and is really about scenery and bike tourism more than chalenging and/or fast riding.

Phillip Maronilla said:

Good grief, there's such a thing as a full suspension 9'er?  How large is that bike?

@Phillip- Here ya' go......

I want to ride MTB more and more every time I'm on my full suspension 26" Trek. It's so awesome.

@Gwynna-That's a classic.

oof. URT. still wanted one of those bad back in the day, same with the Klein Manta.

@Gwynna-Can't convince you to head out to Ringwood, can I? I can dirve and take 2 additional bikes/rides.

Not so into Highbridge for this weekend, but I will be at the Williamsburg pump track on Sunday if you have any interest in heading there.

For all you noobs out there..
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=WPVRU7jSYkQ&desktop_uri=/watch?v=WPVRU7jSYkQ&feature=youtu.be

"Joey"

hahahaha

I didn't pre reg, but ill be driving up the 909 tonight. 7pm race start. day of reg is like 20-25$ leaving piermont at 5 pm, room for a bike or 2.

@Mattie Davitt-  Have fun.  Let me know how it went.

I won.