Are going to see all of Ineos , hovering off the back of the peloton ?

The reverse of "tete de la course" is known/labelled as "Steve Cummings" on French TV

I wonder what lai he used

https://laughingsquid.com/bicycle-with-circular-saw-blade-wheels-rides-on-ice/?

Jules said:

I wonder what lai he used

https://laughingsquid.com/bicycle-with-circular-saw-blade-wheels-rides-on-ice/?

But will the UCI ban it?

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/banned-nys-tests-dugasts-diavolo-spiked-tyre-on-ice/

PowerTap dies, quietly

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2021/02/14/sram-quietly-stops-selling-powertap-pedals

Should we be concerned that with SRAM holding several patents for power meters that innovation is discouraged and we'll eventually see prices start rising?

mugwump said:

PowerTap dies, quietly

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2021/02/14/sram-quietly-stops-selling-powertap-pedals

Should we be concerned that with SRAM holding several patents for power meters that innovation is discouraged and we'll eventually see prices start rising?

Not for now. The market today seem to shows the opposite trend. They are more power meter brands and types than ever before, pedals, cranks, spindles, spiders, competition is fierce and prices keep dropping.

@eloy

thanks.  

I was pondering it some more and realized that for 1x setups with a smallish front ring, like most MTB setups that SRAM seems to push, the hub might be a better place for power reading.  Though as many of those riders are in it for gravity disciplines, maybe those riders don't care about power numbers.  Maybe there's a heat transfer issue with the rotor.    

Another wonder is if SRAM purchased PT to keep it away from Wahoo, which I believe is almost certain to enter the market through some variation on Speedplay pedals.  

Big acquisition day in the bike world

SRAM buys Time pedals

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2021/02/21/sram-buys-times-pedal-business-rossignol-group

It was kind of amazing they didn't get Speedplay, but maybe that was a timing issue, or maybe the original owner didn't want them to send manufacturing to Asia.  But this could be another way SRAM is hoping to chip away at Shimano.  An effort I think stalled some time ago; they need to make a bigger dent in OEM to compete with Shimano and I don't think that's happening.


Pocket outdoor media buys Peloton magazine as well as Outside and more.

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2021/02/22/pocket-outdoor-media-acquires-outside-magazine-outside-tv-gaia-gps

I'm amazed Pocket bought Outside and not vice-versa.  And I've been waiting for Peloton to fold, as I can't figure out who actually buys any of their stuff.  Peloton has few ads, their 'reviews' are almost certainly pay for play, and they seem more intent on selling jerseys than writing.

@mugwump I've been using TIME mountain bike pedals on my CX and mountain bike for nearly a decade. I don't imagine SRAM will do anything new with them (like put a power meter in mount bike pedals that get bashed against rocks), but it is good to know I will still be able to buy cleats and new pedals if I want them

Plus, I do like to see classic brands (like Mavic) get a new life. Hope SRAM does something good with them

It is always kind of surprising to me that SRAM never had pedals under their brand umbrella when they make essentially every other component (including suspension/forks). 

I don't know anything about business, so I'm curious what y'all think. What would make a company like SRAM buy a pedal manufacturer rather than just creating their own? Is it to put out a product without crowding the marketplace? 

And I agree w Pat. I think Quarq is already pretty deep in their spider-based power meters and it would be surprising for them to do something totally different. 

The expectation, or at least speculation, is that SRAM (read the article Mark posted above) could eventually do something with the pedal and hub tech they got from PowerTap.

When I look at the power meter space, there is a clear market gap for mtb/gravel power meter pedals. That said, I can't image that the timelines would be quick for merging Time manufacturing with PowerTap's.

SRAM has been buying well known properties for a while (zipp, quarq, rockshox, etc...) it is infinitely faster and likely cheaper to buy the expertise, manufacturing workflows, and specially brand equity + awareness, that it is to build from scratch.

There are good examples of this, Shimano power meters come to mind. They seem attractive, cool, compatible, but their reputation and reliability is no where near Quarq or Stages. 

On the Sram - Powertap acquisition, I didn't realize when it happened that Sram only purchased the IP, not the manpower. All of the engineers behind Powertap stayed behind (at Saris I think?), so Sram must have seen something, rather than someone(s), they liked.

Do we know if the Time acquisition is the same sort of scenario or did Sram get the people this time (no pun intended)?

a bit of history on SRAM.  It is pretty much all about acquisition.  They started as Grip Shift, a twist shifter.  Then they bought Sachs for chains and derailleurs, which itself might have bought Maillard.  They then purchased Zipp.  And a while after that Quarq.  

What concerns me is that consolidation might be good for profits, but it's generally bad for both innovation and consumers.  As companies get bigger and lock up intellectual property, it's harder for others to get into that niche.  Which then reduces innovation and raises prices because there's little competition.  


So, as to the question about buying Time vs. creating a SRAM pedal, I think the answer is that it's risky to begin with.  Furthermore, they could work around the edges of the three-bolt cleat system created by Look and further evolved by Shimano, but that won't reflect well on the brand.  Campagnolo had a pedal.  Long gone.  Look had at least two distinctly different MTB designs before they settled on working off the two-bolt cleat.  Even Time had trouble with their initial road design: despite what seemed to be better (smarter biomechanics and lower stack height) it relied on a different cleat dimension.  

When SRAM debuted eTap, I went to a presentation for it.  The  SRAM guys claimed that the paper information on patents for electronic shifting, if stacked on top of one another, would be something like three feet high.  

I'm still thinking that PowerTap will come back in a hub for 1x MTB systems.

I also tend to think that if any of the big bike companies figures out how to develop their own integrated shifting system or braking system, they'd drop SRAM and Shimano in a heartbeat.  Which might motivate those companies to get their hooks into everything possible.  I think that rim and wheel companies are falling by the wayside partially because the big four are all selling their own wheels with their bikes, and not sourcing Mavic, Reynolds, etc.  And now with integrated seat posts and handlebars, another source of revenue for suppliers is drying up.  

mugwump said:

a bit of history on SRAM.  It is pretty much all about acquisition.  They started as Grip Shift, a twist shifter.  Then they bought Sachs for chains and derailleurs, which itself might have bought Maillard.  They then purchased Zipp.  And a while after that Quarq.  

What concerns me is that consolidation might be good for profits, but it's generally bad for both innovation and consumers.  As companies get bigger and lock up intellectual property, it's harder for others to get into that niche.  Which then reduces innovation and raises prices because there's little competition.  


So, as to the question about buying Time vs. creating a SRAM pedal, I think the answer is that it's risky to begin with.  Furthermore, they could work around the edges of the three-bolt cleat system created by Look and further evolved by Shimano, but that won't reflect well on the brand.  Campagnolo had a pedal.  Long gone.  Look had at least two distinctly different MTB designs before they settled on working off the two-bolt cleat.  Even Time had trouble with their initial road design: despite what seemed to be better (smarter biomechanics and lower stack height) it relied on a different cleat dimension.  

When SRAM debuted eTap, I went to a presentation for it.  The  SRAM guys claimed that the paper information on patents for electronic shifting, if stacked on top of one another, would be something like three feet high.  

I'm still thinking that PowerTap will come back in a hub for 1x MTB systems.

I also tend to think that if any of the big bike companies figures out how to develop their own integrated shifting system or braking system, they'd drop SRAM and Shimano in a heartbeat.  Which might motivate those companies to get their hooks into everything possible.  I think that rim and wheel companies are falling by the wayside partially because the big four are all selling their own wheels with their bikes, and not sourcing Mavic, Reynolds, etc.  And now with integrated seat posts and handlebars, another source of revenue for suppliers is drying up.  

This happened in the ski industry once ski manufacturers realized they could create integrated binding systems which looked you into a Salomon binding for a Salomon ski. 

Ultimately, JP, you are correct.

If we look at any of SRAM's buys, I bet each of them had the best intention of innovating, integrating and keep moving forward. I am sure that plenty of the PowerTap crew now works for SRAM.

But no doubt, the cycling world has been moving towards less compatibility, something that for us older schoolers is really hard to swallow. SRAM AXS is generally considered 2020's state of the art, just look at the song and dance and $$$$ you'll need to replace a chainring OMGWTF. 

SRAM, Shimano, and Campy discs all use different fluids OMGWTF. 

And yeas, no question, Giant's CADEX, Trek's Bontrager, Specialized's Roval, all have a very obvious goal. Some 3rd parties like Ritchey and DT-Swiss have survived by filling out the OEM and after market gaps. Is nuanced, but these big companies could decide at any point to fill out the gap and knock them out. 

Some of us grew up in a world where the frames where almost forever and you updated the components over time. We improved our bicycles season after season. 

The market doesn't behave this way anymore.  In the bigger US and European markets, most enthusiasts nowadays will buy a full bicycle WAY before overhauling a previous one. 

It is a little bit of a vicious circle, both the companies and their marketing exploit this, but we the consumers also 100% support it.

(in other words, most enthusiasts will buy a full new bicycle before needing to replace their previous bottom bracket, it has been this way for decades, I am still not over it)

This is very insightful and definitely resonates with the guys I ride with around here. I ran into a guy with the same bike frame as me and I asked him which bottom bracket he'd gone with (T47 or Shimano) and he looked at me as if I'd asked what the quantum flux was on his transfabulator.

Dentists buy the whole bike, pay zero attention to the components.

(with no shade thrown at any Dentists on this forum)

 Ugh proprietary hub bodies give me the heebie jeebies. If your hub manufacturer doesnt make an xdr/microspline/ekar hub, you just conveniently have to buy a new wheel.

I will say there is A LOT more compatibility in SRAMs mtb groups. Everything in the 12 speed sram eagle range is compatible and there is a genuine range of products. Like you could run a $110 Eagle crankset, $30 chain, and a $100 12 speed cassette on a regular shimano hub with the $1000+ wireless gears if you wanted. So in theory, you could upgrade piece by piece as your bits wear out. Or only upgrade what you'd like without risking comparability issues. You can't really do that with the top of the line road groups these days. But I guess 12 speed has been the standard for a while now on mtbs which allows more ~trickle down~. 

Imagine a world where cycling brands had come together and move towards standards and compatibility, creating platforms. Wouldn't that be kinda wonderful?

Imagine electronic shifting allowing cassettes with any number of cogs (7/8/9/10/11/12/16/whatever...) 

Today's lack of common standards is obviously frustrating.

However, I'm going to also suggest that this is not necessarily or specially wrong, it is just the way it is. It helps today's pace of innovation. Which is crazy amazing.

Today's Shimano's 105 or SRAM Rival is functionally worlds better than 10+ years ago Dura Ace or Red or XTR or etc...

I'm checking my torques tonight,
https://cyclingtips.com/2021/03/yep-mathieu-van-der-poels-handlebar-broke-but-its-not-what-you-think/

Regardless , it was cool to see him actually riding for his team mates 

have always been surprised by how little torque is required for shifters to stay in place on the bars

https://cyclingtips.com/2021/03/canyon-asks-new-aeroad-owners-to-stop-riding-bike-following-broken-handlebar/

Sounds like Canyon has a pretty big boo boo on it's hands. Swapping all pro teams to alternate bikes? Ouch.

so much ugh, but then the bars actually broke? looked like the shifter clamp is what came undone, no? I guess not... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

eloy said:

so much ugh, but then the bars actually broke? looked like the shifter clamp is what came undone, no? I guess not... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think CyclingTips suggested that MVDP's Di2 Brifter had a non-standard clamp.  

why not a two-speed bike path around a major international airport?

"Groups of cyclists are perhaps one of the last things you’d expect to see upon arrival at Bangkok’s Suvarnabhumi Airport. However, circling the airport is is the 14.6-mile-long and wonderfully named Happy and Healthy Bike Lane, completed in 2014. Cyclists of all skill levels come to pedal along the blue and purple lanes, which pass alongside canals while circling the airport. The blue lanes are for casual bikers, while the purple are for those that want to increase the speed. Tourists can even enjoy the lanes by picking up a bike at the rental shops. Rarely have cycling and plane spotting been combined so wonderfully."

https://www.thediscoverer.com/blog/6-coolest-bike-paths/XvHyVpKgiwAG5a2m

Anybody see MVDP pre race interview ?
he said he was going to prepare for the tour on his mountain bike

firah!