Kissena Forum Archive

http://www.core77.com/posts/51848/Product-Designer-Renders-Laypeoples-Inaccurate-Bicycle-Sketches

Apr 16, 2016 at 06:32 PM

These are extraordinary!

Product Designer Renders Laypeople's Inaccurate Bicycle Sketches

Image: http://s3files.core77.com/blog/images/lead_n_spotlight/474036_lead_400_51848_.jpg

Thierry Bonnaire

Apr 18, 2016 at 07:46 PM

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-myerson-line/id1102044169

Adam Myerson has now his own podcast.

Adam

Apr 20, 2016 at 05:32 AM

https://twitter.com/Ken_C_C/status/722658556957339648

Mark Taylor

Apr 20, 2016 at 12:43 PM

Mixing it up
http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/04/news/sagan-to-make-brief-return-to-mtb-racing_402587

Apr 20, 2016 at 06:53 PM

Adam said:

https://twitter.com/Ken_C_C/status/722658556957339648

It's hard to get a guy to help in those situations. But if you've got a crosswind, you can try to deny him shelter along the side of a road, and you can tail him off a few times to let him know you're aware. This kinds of tactics are hard if the field is hot on your tail, but if it's a long break, like you had, it's easier as you've got some space between you and the field.

Adam

Apr 20, 2016 at 07:23 PM

Yeah. It was a toughie. I knew I had to do something about it. I genuinely think that he was on the limit in the break and that the fact that he conserved (not by his choice but because he couldn't contribute) meant he had that last little bit left at the line. Compared to me of course, who had driven the break more, attacked and been more pro-active on the final climb. Playing bikes is hard- I am pretty happy with what I did: single handedly I shelled 3/4 break mates. But of course, I still lost. Replaying the scenario since the race, an alternative, in hindsight, might have been to not attack at all and just ensure the break stuck. Followed wheels all the way until the last 200m then unloaded. However, having said that, I did assess that option in the race and felt that it might not be in my best interest to take 4 other riders to the line with me. If I had done that and still not won, I would have wished I would have attacked.

One thing that made it slightly more palatable was that chatting to the guy who won on the podium, it turns out he is a professional mountain biker from Colorado. I checked his results and he's good too. He obviously knows how to "race" a bike. So I didn't lose to a schmuck, for what that's worth...

http://teamhealthwarrior.com/2016/04/are-bike-races-broken/

Apr 21, 2016 at 05:59 PM

Health Warrior's Matthew Vandivort wrote a pretty good post.

Are Bike Races Broken?

Apr 21, 2016 at 08:13 PM

At the end, he tosses in this,

"Alternatively I’d argue that prize pools for these events should at least be variable in nature: $X from each rider who registers is set aside for prizes. USAC frowns upon this structure for a whole variety of reasons, but against the backdrop of a shrinking race calendar and exceedingly late registration trends simply structuring prize pools so that they reflect actual participation levels seems like a step in the right direction."

I wrote and talked to some promoters in the fall about this idea. Which I think I called proportional prizelists. Specifically, for cyclocross races. I suggested that payout should be scaled according to the size of the field. Like 50 racers means five paying places and represents a certain percentage of entry fees, 100 racers means 10 paying places, and a larger percentage of fees.

Kind of like what JD Bilodeau proposed for upgrade points this past fall.
http://nebra.us/suggested-revisions-to-usa-cycling-cyclocross-upgrade-criteria/

to me, it would relieve races of having to set aside a big chunk of change for prize money. They'd set aside a minimum, and pay more as the field got bigger. It would also reward racers for having paid in more and having to compete in harder races.

There seemed to be a combination of little interest and a feeling that it wouldn't increase participation.

Apr 21, 2016 at 08:42 PM

mugwump said:

There seemed to be a combination of little interest and a feeling that it wouldn't increase participation.

I think it's a red herring to point to prize lists as the big obstacle for amateur racing.

Apr 21, 2016 at 08:43 PM

Meanwhile, nothing like an eighty meter plunge to your demise... =8o

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/04/news/rio-bikepath-collapses-into-sea-five-missing_403176

Apr 21, 2016 at 09:00 PM

Jules said:

mugwump said:

There seemed to be a combination of little interest and a feeling that it wouldn't increase participation.

I think it's a red herring to point to prize lists as the big obstacle for amateur racing.

I don't know. People are strange about money.

There is the flip side to consider. The extra prize money is fairly small in the overall race budget picture. However, people are probably happier to pay $40 for a small prize list rather than $36 for a non-existent one. With the small list they feel they can "see" where their money is going, but with no prizes, they can't.

Apr 21, 2016 at 09:22 PM

I have raced for about 25ish years, have never cared about the prize list of any race I have ever entered. #ymwv

Dan Reiners

Apr 21, 2016 at 09:30 PM

Why is this even still a thing?

Granted most of my racing has been sans prizes, so I don't look at prize lists when I look at doing a race. We're amateurs, why are we racing for cash prizes? It doesn't defray the very high cost of racing (especially for the David Anthony doper set), we're not going to quit our day jobs for a career in bike racing. Actually, I wonder how many bike racers put their winnings on their tax returns, I am sure the percentage is somewhere between non-existent and negligible. A Jr isn't going to fund his new bike purchase with winnings from races in this day and age they may be able to almost cover all their race entry fees if they do very well.

if somebody can't "see" where their race entry is going, they probably have serious vision issues and shouldn't be racing bicycles. That ambulance sitting by the start/finish isn't there for chuckles, and just because it says Volunteer FD on the side doesn't mean it doesn't cost the promoter money. Marshals, pacers and officials are getting paid to put up with us. Permits, insurance and USAC fees are arguably invisible, I guess, but consistent in every location. I could go on and on about the costs, but it gets silly to describe it all.

JP, I totally agree "People are strange about money" that is probably the truest thing ever said on this board.

Apr 22, 2016 at 12:44 AM

I'm with Eloy & Dan on this. It never crossed my mind that Prizes might be a big contributing factor to the cost of amateur racing. Frankly it's still small (relatively) for pro racing.

Adam

Apr 22, 2016 at 02:11 AM

They should remove prize money from amateur racing in the entirety. Dick heads thinking that getting up at 430am to race in a park (yes, a park, not the Tour de France) should be rewarded by anything but a nominal sum of money are the same dick heads who cut your wheel in a sprint for 8th place. If they left amateur road racing as they no longer get the opportunity to win a potential $100, so be it. Good riddance.

The race promoter should allow the winner to get free entry to the next race in the series or the next year's race, second place 75% off, third place 50%. Done. Overall the riders still end up more or less even from a monetary perspective, and the promoter gets a few names on his start list for the next event

Last week I came 4th in a race. I won $15 and a t-shirt. This week I came second and won two tyres and a medal. I also once won some bar tape (which I now use on one of my bikes). I also got some cake one time...some socks...won some arm warmers (size large- too big

). I did one time, by chance, win a pack of 24 Gu gels, with caffeine. Sweet. And also, by chance, they were my favourite flavour too- chocolate raspberry. Get in! I have no recollection of how much the races had cost to enter or if I paid for a hotel. I can remember what place I came though.

Apr 22, 2016 at 02:23 AM

Adam,

By the way - MASSIVE CHAPEAU for your 2nd place. At the levels you are racing these days I think it's damn fucking impressive that you basically haven't finished outside the top 10 in... as may months?

I can't pretend to have any experience at that level but I don't think it's fair to say you lost. You're racing to grind dudes off your wheel and got all but one of them.

I don't think that racing to win and racing to minimize regret at the same thing. I also don't know how feasible it is to learn all the new faces out there in the early months of a campaign.

JohnMalcolmson

Apr 22, 2016 at 12:06 PM

@Adam Agree with Jules, huge congrats. When you leave it all out on the road you're learning how to win next time. Sure, maybe you could have conserved more — played your cards closer to your chest and then dropped a bomb on your break partners in one big late race attack — but your Belgian style of racing is exciting and yields tons of intangible tactical learning. It also prepares you for the bat fight that is racing 123 fields.
Know thy enemy is a made a lot easier these days with race predictor.
Adam "Kelly" Naguib.

Apr 22, 2016 at 02:04 PM

Dan Reiners said:

Why is this even still a thing?

if somebody can't "see" where their race entry is going, they probably have serious vision issues and shouldn't be racing bicycles. That ambulance sitting by the start/finish isn't there for chuckles, and just because it says Volunteer FD on the side doesn't mean it doesn't cost the promoter money. Marshals, pacers and officials are getting paid to put up with us. Permits, insurance and USAC fees are arguably invisible, I guess, but consistent in every location. I could go on and on about the costs, but it gets silly to describe it all.

JP, I totally agree "People are strange about money" that is probably the truest thing ever said on this board.

Racers are a myopic bunch. Obsessives typically are.

In NYC in particular, I"d venture to guess that many don't see where their race entry is going. CRCA has 600 members or thereabouts, probably upwards of 30 "teams," they don't have to be involved, or know anything about the costs of racing other than showing up.

While I agree with the sentiments shared, scoffing at others does nothing to change perceptions, perceptions we're stuck working with because when or if they show up has an impact on whether or not bike racing continues in our home city.

I think Vandivort's piece was, at least in some ways, directed to the folks who complain about the high cost of racing.

Apr 22, 2016 at 02:54 PM

I don't hear a lot of scoffing JP. Vandivort may have directed his piece at people who don't like the rising race fees - but his suggestion of removing prizes doesn't really move that needle.

I think prizes outside of an orange or a spare inner tube are at best needless and at worst destructive - but they are a distraction.

The big costs are people to make the races safe and manage the logistics.

David Yang

Apr 22, 2016 at 03:42 PM

All races should be like the Watermelon crit: Winners get a giant, ripe, delicious watermelon that their skinny bike racer arms can barely lift.

Apr 22, 2016 at 04:45 PM

David Yang said:

All races should be like the Watermelon crit: Winners get a giant, ripe, delicious watermelon that their skinny bike racer arms can barely lift.

Myles

Apr 22, 2016 at 04:59 PM

This is an article soon to be in print.

"Special Regulation - Joggers Lane: Due to permit requirements in Prospect
Park, the line separating the jogger’s lane from the portion of roadway
will be treated as if it were an enforcement line under the following
regulation: 3B1Center Line If a course is not closed to traffic, all
competitors must keep to the right of the center line or enforcement line.
Violations are subject to 8B1(a) Warning for accidental riding on or
crossing; relegation, DSQ or a 30 days suspension for advancing position or
a dangerous attack. "

Coming soon to a NYC park near you courtesy of my good friends on Colorado.

Someone who knows how the forum works can post this under racing, fucked if
I know how to.

Apr 22, 2016 at 05:02 PM

I am confused as to why this is not more hardcore.

I.E: If you cross into the Jogger's lane you are suspended from NYC Park racing for 365 Days.