May 01, 2016 at 06:22 PM
Evelyn was 52nd.
Must be a story behind it.
Must be a story behind it.
Red Hook Crit
May 01, 2016 at 06:28 PM
May 01, 2016 at 07:42 PM
Here's the thing, racing on a standardized oval track with clear sight lines and a very rigid set of rules and protocols means mitigated risks and safer racing due to the absence of brakes on fixed gear bikes, BUT EVEN THEN serious crashes happen.
Now remove everything from that equation except the brakeless fixed gear bikes and surprise! we end up with guaranteed carnage every year at Redhook.
I mean, right, the allure of these races was due to the danger associated with it's underground, "unsanctioned" status, but at this point Redhook is probably the biggest amateur bike race series in the world complete with a kermess-like atmosphere and corporate sponsors. At what point does the unofficial become official and lose that part of it's charm?
I'm conflicted because I like that it gets people excited about bike racing, but man is it unnecessarily dangerous.
Related: Tuner car culture's transition from idiotic street racing to autocross and track days (bro!).
Now remove everything from that equation except the brakeless fixed gear bikes and surprise! we end up with guaranteed carnage every year at Redhook.
I mean, right, the allure of these races was due to the danger associated with it's underground, "unsanctioned" status, but at this point Redhook is probably the biggest amateur bike race series in the world complete with a kermess-like atmosphere and corporate sponsors. At what point does the unofficial become official and lose that part of it's charm?
I'm conflicted because I like that it gets people excited about bike racing, but man is it unnecessarily dangerous.
Related: Tuner car culture's transition from idiotic street racing to autocross and track days (bro!).
May 01, 2016 at 07:49 PM
Track bikes on a track = ok
why oh why can't you have at least a front brake on a fixie if you are to quote Bruce...racing in the street???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOWIAXsfZus
why oh why can't you have at least a front brake on a fixie if you are to quote Bruce...racing in the street???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOWIAXsfZus
May 01, 2016 at 07:52 PM
May 01, 2016 at 08:04 PM
stole this off of FB:
"Was one of the last guys to miss the moto. Almost pooped my pants. This was scary and hope everybody recovers quickly...
yup, this was 250 yards into the race. The lead moto had a problem with the clutch and couldn't go anywhere. I think they made the mistake of starting the race before confirming that the lead moto is rolling. It also doesn't help that the first lap is a prime lap, which always adds to the danger . I think there will be lessons learned out of this event, too bad that it had to come to injuries first."
As fixed-gear bikes were raced in criteriums on the road in the US I think into the early 1960s, it isn't necessarily the machine that's at issue. As Malcolmson pointed out, there's plenty of reason to believe that at least a decent chunk people racing don't have that much fixed-gear experience or much racing experience.
I agree with Yang's query about this being "unsanctioned". It's hardly underground. And it appears to be Trimble's full-time job. At the same time, Trimble doesn't have a ton of race organizing experience under his belt. Did he hire experienced race officials with USAC experience? Did he hire a moto driver with race experience?
"Was one of the last guys to miss the moto. Almost pooped my pants. This was scary and hope everybody recovers quickly...
yup, this was 250 yards into the race. The lead moto had a problem with the clutch and couldn't go anywhere. I think they made the mistake of starting the race before confirming that the lead moto is rolling. It also doesn't help that the first lap is a prime lap, which always adds to the danger . I think there will be lessons learned out of this event, too bad that it had to come to injuries first."
As fixed-gear bikes were raced in criteriums on the road in the US I think into the early 1960s, it isn't necessarily the machine that's at issue. As Malcolmson pointed out, there's plenty of reason to believe that at least a decent chunk people racing don't have that much fixed-gear experience or much racing experience.
I agree with Yang's query about this being "unsanctioned". It's hardly underground. And it appears to be Trimble's full-time job. At the same time, Trimble doesn't have a ton of race organizing experience under his belt. Did he hire experienced race officials with USAC experience? Did he hire a moto driver with race experience?
May 01, 2016 at 08:04 PM
Red hook this year was very disappointing and scary . I qualified pretty terribly so that put me in a bad position for the start grid of the race . Qualifying was so scary I almost chickened out on the main event . With that being said there were several crashes on the first lap at the first turn slowing the pack in the back down. I tried to catch up with a bunch of crashes that just kept happening but was very discouraging. eventually the Moto caught Up to me and was lapped out . Every year this race gets tougher and harder to maneuver through . I'm proud to even have raced.
May 01, 2016 at 09:10 PM
Trimble has had how many kicks at the can now? How many more people have to go the hospital before he stops putting bike races?
It's not the fixies, it's poorly designed courses, officiating and mixed fields.
What terrible thing has to happen before people as "Who is fired?"
Trimble should be answer #1.
It's not the fixies, it's poorly designed courses, officiating and mixed fields.
What terrible thing has to happen before people as "Who is fired?"
Trimble should be answer #1.
May 01, 2016 at 10:05 PM
Should probably be a "club policy" to as best as possible dissuade members from participating (kind of like the helmet thingy Kissena has). This race is a freak show and has nothing to do with bike racing/amateur cycling. No-one can be told what to do, but it can be suggested, at least, that they do not attend.
May 01, 2016 at 10:26 PM
@Adam I feel you. This race is silly dangerous. Unfortunately it's also the most public face of bike racing in NYC. I wonder if there's a way that Kissena could help lobby / rally the community for a safer event? Seems like some simple steps (hiring experienced motos, using 'soft' barriers like hay bales, etc) would allow the event to continue to grow in a positive way.
May 01, 2016 at 11:14 PM
@RileyHoonan,
practical thinking like that will get you nowhere.
And make you enemies.
#nogoodsuggestionunpunished
practical thinking like that will get you nowhere.
And make you enemies.
#nogoodsuggestionunpunished
May 01, 2016 at 11:16 PM
Trimble firing himself doesn't seem that likely to me. No idea how his sponsors see it. They're the ones paying for the spectacle. If they get agitated, we can hope he decides to outsource critical course management duties.Jules said:What terrible thing has to happen before people as "Who is fired?"
Trimble should be answer #1.
May 01, 2016 at 11:47 PM
I think Adam and Riley's posts highlight the awkward space Redhook occupies... it gives the young cyclist population of Brooklyn a chance to show their friends "a bike race" because the start time is friendly...it's at night on a weekend rather than at 6:23 AM in Prospect Park on saturday morning. it's an event you can go to and eat at and drink at and spectate at whether or not you know what a chainring is. but it also, well, isn't a bike race in the way most roadies define a bike race.
i'm thinking the solution is friendly start times. let's make prospect park races occur at 6 PM on saturdays. surely no one in the five boroughs would object to that...
i'm thinking the solution is friendly start times. let's make prospect park races occur at 6 PM on saturdays. surely no one in the five boroughs would object to that...
May 02, 2016 at 01:10 AM
@Brendan Rigby why not just re-use the RHC course for a proper road crit ala grant's tomb? Get the low categories done early afternoon with a domestic pro race in the evening. Perhaps with the odd feature (penny farthing /folding bike/citi bike race). There's a race called the London Nocturne back home that I think does this very successfully.
May 02, 2016 at 02:32 AM
Because the "schtick" is that it's not a USAC race. Otherwise a totally reasonable approach.JamesShaw said:@Brendan Rigby why not just re-use the RHC course for a proper road crit ala grant's tomb? Get the low categories done early afternoon with a domestic pro race in the evening. Perhaps with the odd feature (penny farthing /folding bike/citi bike race). There's a race called the London Nocturne back home that I think does this very successfully.
May 02, 2016 at 03:35 PM
Dave Trimble doesn't have a lock on the course. It just requires getting in good with the Brooklyn Cruise Terminal folks and working out a date for the event. A good USAC promoter could possibly put on a great crit. I think the course is exciting and that hairpin turn would be an awesome thing on a proper road bike.JamesShaw said:@Brendan Rigby why not just re-use the RHC course for a proper road crit ala grant's tomb? Get the low categories done early afternoon with a domestic pro race in the evening. Perhaps with the odd feature (penny farthing /folding bike/citi bike race). There's a race called the London Nocturne back home that I think does this very successfully.
The question is getting a promoter to step up and create the event.
May 02, 2016 at 03:48 PM
The road bike version should have a highly similar name. Red Hook Criterium? That ium makes all the difference
May 02, 2016 at 06:12 PM
Alternate Names for a USAC sanctioned crit on the Red Hook Crit course:
Fort Defiance Crit
Brooklyn Cruise Terminal Crit
Red Hook Crit (In Dutch not English so it's totally different)
Brooklyn Night Crit
Sonny Balzano Memorial Crit
The Official Red Hook Crit
Fort Defiance Crit
Brooklyn Cruise Terminal Crit
Red Hook Crit (In Dutch not English so it's totally different)
Brooklyn Night Crit
Sonny Balzano Memorial Crit
The Official Red Hook Crit
May 02, 2016 at 07:44 PM
There would be just as much carnage in a road-bike version of this race. See Harlem -- it's a wide four-corner crit and there have been horrific wrecks every year. Now that the "grand prix" aspect of it is gone, that will hopefully change. On the other hand, Orchard Beach :-\. Small prizes, perennial crashes. Go figure.
Kissenas past and present have participated in Red Hook Crit. Dave Trimble being one. And Dan Chabanov. And Neil Bezdek. And Al Barouh. And many, many others. To say that this club does not sanction this unsanctioned event would be laughably beside the point.
Kissenas past and present have participated in Red Hook Crit. Dave Trimble being one. And Dan Chabanov. And Neil Bezdek. And Al Barouh. And many, many others. To say that this club does not sanction this unsanctioned event would be laughably beside the point.
May 02, 2016 at 07:54 PM
Unicyclo Hipsterium perhaps?
May 02, 2016 at 11:55 PM
Ye Olde Rehd Heuk Criterium, complete with beards only pennyfarthing field
May 03, 2016 at 12:15 AM
Leave the race alone....armor up and go full ROLLER BALL
May 03, 2016 at 02:31 AM
May 03, 2016 at 07:13 PM
Whitey is ready
May 04, 2016 at 02:46 AM
My helmet is not that big. It's a goddamn medium.
May 04, 2016 at 02:51 AM
I've seen him without his helmet. I don't know how but his head is even bigger. That helmet is like a goddamn Tardis.
#timelord
#timelord
May 04, 2016 at 03:03 AM
Good thing for POC and their full custom option...Otherwise Whitey would never have found a bucket to fit over his dome
e
e
May 04, 2016 at 04:44 PM
May 06, 2016 at 09:25 PM
Lacks insight, save one thought at the very end.Mark Taylor said:
I'll pick up four points
"Track bikes were created for velodromes, where banked walls prevent pedal strikes."
Fixed-gear bikes were once called "safety" bicycles and the first chain-drive appeared around 1879. They were ridden on the road as well as the track (don't think there were many tracks in 1879), and were not created for the track.
"And here’s the most important element: The racecourse is packed with the types of fans who would never, under other circumstances, attend a bicycle race. Call them what you like — hipsters, urbanites, whatever — it’s not the lycra crowd."
Fixed-gear bikes were once called "safety" bicycles and the first chain-drive appeared around 1879. They were ridden on the road as well as the track (don't think there were many tracks in 1879), and were not created for the track.
"And here’s the most important element: The racecourse is packed with the types of fans who would never, under other circumstances, attend a bicycle race. Call them what you like — hipsters, urbanites, whatever — it’s not the lycra crowd."
Several Kissena members were there. As I'm sure there were hundreds from the local racing and riding community. Further, lots of traditional bike races attract the "it's not the lycra crowd." Athens comes to mind. Somerville used to be that way. Harlem used to be that way.
And then there's this:
"For a moment, let’s envision a scenario in which Trimble simply staged an unsanctioned nighttime crit for road bikes. After some initial buzz, Trimble’s race would attract the local Cat. 1 teams. He’d have to register with USA Cycling and then shop for industry sponsors. Rules would require him to adopt a traditional course shape and format."
Registering with USAC is hard? He shopped for sponsors, both industry and non, who were happy to put up money. And the final part, "Rules would require him to adopt a traditional course and format."
I don't recall there being a rule about "traditional" courses. I've done lots of races with hairpin turns. Traditional format? Is there a rule about open category racing? Seems like when racers are scarce, you can find category 1-4 together. Track nationals have qualifying heats before the main mass-start races.
"The crash looked awful. The aftermath? It was typical bike racing stuff."
I've never seen people crash into the lead vehicle at a race. Ever. I don't think I've ever seen them overtake the lead vehicle at the start.
I agree that it's a bike race. And in some ways typical. That a fixed-gear bike is used is part of the equation, but it's impossible to extricate one element from everything else. Further, the equation has markedly changed over the years. Underground was one of the selling points, but that went by the wayside as he got sponsors. Danger was one of the selling points, but the Navy Yard event ended that selling point. Messengers and hipsters and racers mixing together was an early selling point, but that has pretty much gone by the wayside as well. Now it's marketed as a race. Evolution is part of the story, but, as with anything that sells history, it's overlooked.
May 06, 2016 at 09:26 PM
BTW, found this on FB, in someone else's thread
from Trimble
"First of all I would like to personally thank everyone who pined on a number Saturday. I am deeply grateful for the support and participation in the Red Hook Crit. This is a world that everyone of you have helped build.
The incident at the start of the men's race is still on everyone's mind. As the race started the moto driver stalled the engine and was left stranded. What happened next is clear. It was a simple incident with a catastrophic result. I acknowledge that this should not have happened and as race director apologize for the incident. As always we will review every incident and continue improving our safety infrastructure and race operations. Luckily all the injuries sustained in the crash are relatively minor.
Going forward the motos will begin moving around the circuit before the race is started. This will ensure they get a safe launch and offer a margin if something goes wrong. As a reminder the motos primary function is to sweep lapped riders off the circuit and provide a visual and audible reference to fans, riders, photographers, medical team, and course marshals that the race is approaching. In an situation where the course marshals are working to clear the circuit before the race comes back around the motos are essential.
The pilot we used is experienced at escorting cycling races and is the only driver we have ever used in Brooklyn. After the incident he remained on duty and escorted the race without issue. The procedures to start the race have been in place for years and mechanically the moto was in proper working condition.
I hope everyone remembers all of the amazing performances and efforts that took place before and after this. It was a beautiful day with overwhelming positive energy and believe that this day will be remembered ultimately for everything that went right as opposed to what went wrong."
David Trimble
from Trimble
"First of all I would like to personally thank everyone who pined on a number Saturday. I am deeply grateful for the support and participation in the Red Hook Crit. This is a world that everyone of you have helped build.
The incident at the start of the men's race is still on everyone's mind. As the race started the moto driver stalled the engine and was left stranded. What happened next is clear. It was a simple incident with a catastrophic result. I acknowledge that this should not have happened and as race director apologize for the incident. As always we will review every incident and continue improving our safety infrastructure and race operations. Luckily all the injuries sustained in the crash are relatively minor.
Going forward the motos will begin moving around the circuit before the race is started. This will ensure they get a safe launch and offer a margin if something goes wrong. As a reminder the motos primary function is to sweep lapped riders off the circuit and provide a visual and audible reference to fans, riders, photographers, medical team, and course marshals that the race is approaching. In an situation where the course marshals are working to clear the circuit before the race comes back around the motos are essential.
The pilot we used is experienced at escorting cycling races and is the only driver we have ever used in Brooklyn. After the incident he remained on duty and escorted the race without issue. The procedures to start the race have been in place for years and mechanically the moto was in proper working condition.
I hope everyone remembers all of the amazing performances and efforts that took place before and after this. It was a beautiful day with overwhelming positive energy and believe that this day will be remembered ultimately for everything that went right as opposed to what went wrong."
David Trimble