Kissena Forum Archive

Training to Race: Faster, Stronger, Awesomer

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^the name of the game is accumulating minutes at 70-90% then anerobic specificity as you get closer to race day.

To repeat @Perlberg's advice though, you can't really train for cycling races like you do for an endurance event with a super focussed build & taper.  There is a long season of racing and you can use it find out what kind of events suit you.


Gwynna,
in rough terms, it's 10% more than you're producing.  And no matter how good you get, it's always going to be 10% more until you win every race you enter.  And then you upgrade, and you're faced with the same problem.

The problem with your question is that there isn't a real answer.  Are you discussing keeping up, winning a sprint, a hillclimb, riding away from the field.  Racing is stochastic and, as such, power demands depend on many things, among them, the course, the wind, the riders, and much more.  A smart racer with good pack skills can "fake" her way into finishing when a stronger person with fewer skills gets dropped.  And if a smart racer with good pack skills is riding decently, he can "fake" his way into the winning break or into the money when stronger racers get nothing.

Remember, like culture and politics, racing is local.  If someone in the local IV-V fields has a power meter, they'd be a better source than just asking what's a good w/kg to aim for.  And with this, they should look at their average power, not normalized, and then note what kind of surges they needed to keep up.

For example, you need to get over 110berg to survive in Central Park.  How hard you need to go varies depending on the group.  Many new racers empty themselves not to lose position on the hill, and then are so spent they get dropped on the next drag up to 97th street.  So the smart racer knows when they're weak to sag climb 110berg, move up again on the descent to the transverse, and then sag climb, albeit more carefully, up to 97th.  


Take this data point, re-test in a month or two.  Hopefully, you'll see progress.  

But if you want to engage in such speculation, a good source is: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-profiling
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Gwynna, I totally understand what you are saying. Maybe another club member has some NP numbers from 4/5 and/or women's races to share with you for that measuring stick.

We can talk more about it on Sunday during our ride. But the points JP makes are really important to consider as well.
The Allen/Coggan book Training and Racing with a Power Meter has a table of typical watts/kg for different racer categories male and female. Google it and you might find it. I'm having no luck with my phone but have been able to find it from my computer
Form and fitness are SOOO overrated.  There are other ways to skin a cat.  You could endear yourself to your teammates and convince them to work like sled dogs for you and drop you off 20 yards from the line.  I've got something to say about all these acronyms and jargon...Enough about FTP !  It's about LCB (Little Cupcake Bakeshop). Give your teammates a handful of SRV's (Southern Red Velvets) and a couple of GV's (Golden Vanillas) before a race and then ride the lightening all the way to the line !!!! 
@Gwynna here are some W/kg numbers for FTP for various categories of rider up to World Tour

Now you see why @Yaks has consigned himself to muffins, cupcakes and a Fabian-esque pompador...


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The gist of it....
The Allen/Coggan book Training and Racing with a Power Meter has a table of typical watts/kg for different racer categories male and female. Google it and you might find it. I'm having no luck with my phone but have been able to find it from my computer
This is true. He breaks it down by category and gender. Furthermore, i think he cites power values for various time intervals, not just ftp. Of you are a sprinter, then your 10-20 power numbers will be higher on the chart than the ftp. I'm not at home or I would look up your target. And I agree that it is good to have a sense of where you are in the herd. Not just 10% more.
i just did my first ride (on a trainer) with a HR strap on.  this data thing is addicting.
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@Jules: that's it!
@Gwynna: we are all good at something. But we are urged to work on the things that are substandard.
i just did my first ride (on a trainer) with a HR strap on.  this data thing is addicting.
Christ Rigby...are you serious?  Do you wear underwear under your bibs?  Do your Strava files now have bizzarro power numbers?  I'm off to check....
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Yacks:  tonight, your dreams came true.  Behold, PowerCal: http://www.strava.com/activities/105661052
Excellent grasshopper.  I have looked at your power numbers and...
So many changes...so much more POWER! It would be cruel of me not to warn you all..
@Yacks - does that mean you're going for the yellow jersey this year???  haha

@Yacks - does that mean you're going for the yellow jersey this year???  haha
I suppose this is as good time as any to renew my yearly plea that Kissena try to go for YELLOW. Take that fine-tuned machine that has dominated the climbing and sprinting competitions for years and put it to work on the one jersey Kissena has yet to capture.

Please. Try. Something new this year. You will grow as a team and individuals, even if you don't ultimately succeed.
We've never taken the yellow in the Spring Series?  ZOMG.  FOR SHAME!  I agree that we should go for it.

I would go for the yellow this year in Prospect Park in the 4's but I will be starting a new job so I am not in a position to commit.


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@Gwynna - The intermediate points do not count toward the yellow jersey.
A profile of the ACME fit...with shorter stem & cranks....seatpost with 25mm of setback...bars raised..laces out !!!
Winter Training Series 2.5

Part 1
Part 2

I've been really time crunched this month. Like, looking forward to the weekend so I have time to do work time crunched. I've been sticking to my plan to get on the bike almost every day. I think I've missed 2 days this month. It hasn't been pretty. Some days are short and sweet. Here are a few simple workouts I've been using. 

Roller Sprints: 

Warm-up 5 minutes

3-4 x 20 seconds "spin-ups" increase cadence gradually until you top out
main set, every 2 minutes sprint (hands on the tops) for 10 seconds in small ring
in between resume normal endurance paced riding
focus on getting your legs moving as quickly as possible, and keeping your bike centered and controlled on the rollers. cool down a few minutes. done in under 35 minutes 

Tempo/Threshold

5-10 minute warm-up.
a few 30 second high cadence intervals to get the legs warm
15-20 minutes straight tempo (~80% of FTP)
directly into 5-10 minutes of threshold (~95% FTP) 
5 minute cool down 

done in 30-45 minutes 

Tempo w/ Jumps

5-10 minute warm-up.
a few 30 second high cadence intervals to get the legs warm

20-30 minutes of tempo
every 3 minutes, shift to an easier gear and jump out of the saddle and sprint 10 seconds 
tips: if using a power meter, you'll want to see your 10 second average. that will give you the best idea if during the non sprinting time you are staying at your tempo pace - average power will climb and be misleading
5 minute cool down 
done in 30-45 minutes 


Mike - you bring up a good point about viewing avg power and I'm curious what others do. 

What power display do people use to monitor their output during training. I started with current/actual power (no averaging), but have gone to 3sec averaging because the current pwr reading is just too jumpy. Do people use 10 sec avg power or even more averaged power displays for on bike training? Do you vary it depending on the workout such as no or little smoothing for short intense intervals and more smoothing for longer tempo/threshold efforts?

I like 3s average as it gives me a smoother idea of power being output.But this is only on my normal riding screen.

For intervals, I use average for the interval itself. I combine that with %of FTP that my Garmin lets me display. This way I know what effort level I am outputting and whether my overall interval is also within my target. So, if I am shooting for 90% and am indoors, that is relatively easy to shoot for as the resistance is consistent. If I am outside, then I look to stay within say 85-95% most of the time if the terrain varies and then when it becomes consistent, I hone back in on the 90% figure. Just keep in mind that outside, the % or average power for 3s or 10s is going to swing around quite a bit. If you know that you are keeping things consistent and the average is where you want it to be, you're ok.


Just to echo Mike's post. Consistency is key to training. The other thing to consider is the overall intent of your winter base mileage. You are building volume right now. Imagine that if you rode one day and did X amount of work to build volume. Then the next day, you didn't ride. Your average per day is only X/2. If however, you at least rode the rollers or did a short workout, then you're at least building at X+(X-y) / 2. Meaning, you're actually still working on building more than if you didn't ride. It all adds up.

Consistency is key. Even if not everyday (I love me an off day on Monday), then work on adding a day to your weekly schedule at a rate of one per month so you don't overdo it.

Keep at it, the results come way later than the work you do. Delayed gratification isn't easy, but its the only way in this sport.

Mike & Eric's point on adding that extra (even very, very easy day) is well taken.

I have a single screen for intervals, it shows

Actual power
Average power
Interval time

At any time in the year I have a pretty good idea of what my upper & lower boundaries are for my zones, so I can dial the averages for any interval in pretty well.