Re: shorter intervals

Brendan,

I fell off my bike after Killington stage 3 two years ago ask Joe. It was hilarious. My wife thought I was dying.

Ryan J said:

I fell off my bike after Killington stage 3 two years ago ask Joe. It was hilarious. My wife thought I was dying.

Mrs. Ryan is your comic foil.  When you came to check on me at the Bennington hospital, wasn't her comment, "is he gonna make it?"

Ha ha, yeah she did say that! I guess to people with no experience of the many types of brutality we put ourselves through it looks pretty weird sometimes. "It can't be good to push yourself that hard," she'll say.

I don't buy the "pros push themselves harder" angle.  Lots of slow people push themselves to exhaustion and beyond; the difference is that Merckx et all have much bigger engines, so when they fall off their bikes they land on the podium.

@Gwynna one indication of metered effort is the variability index, or difference between your Normalized Power and Average Power.  (NormP/AvgP)

Jules said:

There is all kinds of interesting literature about effort governance; is is muscular or mental if you have extra time to read/research it.  Science of Sport is a good starting off point.

Marc, and possibly other Kissenas, participated in a study where it seemed like they were trying to figure out if people actually went to their limits.

mugwump said:

Jules said:

There is all kinds of interesting literature about effort governance; is is muscular or mental if you have extra time to read/research it.  Science of Sport is a good starting off point.

Marc, and possibly other Kissenas, participated in a study where it seemed like they were trying to figure out if people actually went to their limits.

Andy Hampsten, when preparing for his final Tour de France in Motorola colors crashed while motorpacing and the effects thereof prevented him from starting.  He allegedly passed out and rode into a roundabut.  When he was asked about it, he responded to the effect of 'if you can't go 100% while seeing double, you're not going to do anything at the Tour.'

Canadian Mike tells me that pros are training with pulse oximiters these days.

There's a funny scene in an episode of BTB from last season, where JPow has a pulse oximeter in CO and is running up and down the stairs trying to get his numbers to drop into a ridiculously low range. (you think he might have done a little research on what kinds of numbers one can expect when using a pulse oximeter). Dude would have been experiencing brain damage if he got to the numbers he thought he wanted to get to. And of course, despite running up and down the stairs for minutes, he experienced NO DROP.

The big problem I see with using the pulse oximiter as a tool, is the SIGNIFICANT lag time between reading and oxygen decrease. There's just no way you can get an accurate reading during short anaerobic efforts.

And FWIW, pulse oximetry is actually not all that accurate. It's just the least invasive, easiest, cheapest way to get a rough idea of O2 content of the blood.

I didn't read the whole article, but here is the last line of the abstract (EIH = exercise induced hypoxia or a lowering of oxygen levels in the blood):

"The results indicate that ear oximetry overestimates the incidence of EIH and underestimates the oxyhaemoglobin saturation in highly trained cyclists during exercise in comparison with those measurements made from arterial blood."

It seems that the oxygen levels in drawn blood samples showed no change at max exercise. So according to this study, throw away the oximeters and pull out the needles.

But this is an old paper (1993). Here is a  review from 2003. Again I  only read the abstract, which makes a few interesting points. First one takes us back to our old argument about lactate - some say benefits and I maintain that it is a poison. This article points out : " During maximal exercise, an extreme lactate spill-over to blood allows pH decrease to below 7.1 and according to the O2 dissociation curve this is critical for SaO2 [oxygen levels in the blood]". In particular, if you restore the blood pH to 7.5, oxygenation returns to 95% (from 89% at the lower pH of 7.1). This seems significant.

However, the abstract goes on to say:
"This enables exercise capacity to increase, an effect also seen when O2 supplementation to inspired air restores arterial oxygenation. In that case, exercise capacity increases less than can be explained by VO2 and CaO2. Furthermore, the change in muscle oxygenation during maximal exercise is not affected when hyperoxia and sodium bicarbonate attenuate desaturation. It is proposed that other organs benefit from enhanced O2 availability, and especially the brain appears to increase its oxygenation during maximal exercise with hyperoxia."

In effect, muscles don't seem particularly sensitive to these O2 changes in the blood. But your brain may be happier. I remember reading somewhere that sugar also has a strong effect on the brain, which is first priority when you go hypoglycemic (low blood sugar).

Dave I'm grinding my way through Excercisie Phisiology: Human Bioenergetics and It's Applications 4th ed and it has quite a bit of detail on the "Lactate Shuttle" at least in the first eight chapters.

cross posted:

March 15. Grant's Tomb Criterium is not only a NYC racing classic, but it's an EXCELLENT race in it's own right. Held on one of two possible course configurations (depending on NYPD towing issues), this 5-turn course is built to challenge and requires heads-up, use your brain racing to succeed. In years past, we've had moderate to good KCC participation, and good to GREAT results here as well. 

https://www.bikereg.com/Net/crca-grants-tomb-criterium-2014

Worried that you can't handle the twists and turns? Fear not, this is one of the events around which I will be organizing several mentor-events to get you guys started the crit racing season on the right foot.

First, the week before, either the Saturday or Sunday (coordinated with the Spring Series CP race...which has not yet been scheduled), after the racing action, we'll roll up to the Grant's Tomb course and spend some time pre-riding the course, practicing tricky turns, a deceptively long/hard uphill finishing sprint, talk tactics (more or less talk depending on wind-chill temps!).

Second, on race day, I will be onsite all day, coaching/mentoring from the sidelines. From getting in hot-laps around a fully closed course, giving pre-race hot-tips and double secret racing line instruction that will make your life so much easier, grabbing/holding onto extra layers from the start-line and shouting helpful advice from the sidelines during your race, I'll be there FOR YOU.

Third, it is my hope that we can get the Kissena pop-up tent out there with some turbo trainers for proper and conveniently located warm-ups.

This race and it's associated events will be an excellent opportunity to apply the things you've learned from JP's tactic talks into practice! Don't miss out!!!

I think I may have had a training revelation.  At ~80-85 RPM, ~170 bpm, my legs burned.  At ~90-95 rpm, ~170 bpm, it was much easier to pedal!  I think the power output was the same. But all I'm going by is a powercal and there were some sprint/rests in there so the data is a bit hard to decipher.  

Brendan Rigby said:

I think I may have had a training revelation.  At ~80-85 RPM, ~170 bpm, my legs burned.  At ~90-95 rpm, ~170 bpm, it was much easier to pedal!  I think the power output was the same. But all I'm going by is a powercal and there were some sprint/rests in there so the data is a bit hard to decipher.  

What's the wisdom on higher RPMs being a better match for shorter folks like me?

How do you know it has to do with your height, or your leg length?  Maybe the extra 10rpm a minute decreases perceived exertion. Maybe you're just more efficient.  No matter what, it tells you that for your current fitness/riding style/position, pedal at the higher rpm to go better when your h.r. is high.

Thanks, JP.  I don't know what it has to do with, or even if my conclusion was really correct.  I mentioned the height because I was thinking something along the lines of legs with less mass are easier to spin.

Brendan and all,

Brendan makes an interesting point, but get's sidetracked quickly. The important thing to take a way from his original "leg speed" question, is that during the course of the year, you need to be training both low cadence and high cadence energy systems. So if you are always doing intervals in just one RPM range...YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

Also consider low rpm (45-60) cadence. This regime requires you to use higher torque (force applied to the pedal) at a defined wattage. The idea is that grinding away at low cadence increases leg strength so that you have more pop when you put in an attack or start your sprint.

It is also just nice to change whatever you are doing on the trainer so that you stay enthusiastic.

why oh why does my bike computer show a 1 hour workout but when I transfer to Strava only 13 minutes moving shows up?  why, why, why?

why oh why does my bike computer show a 1 hour workout but when I transfer to Strava only 13 minutes moving shows up?  why, why, why?

Because for 47 of the minutes of your workout you sat without pedaling?

Perlberg up your nose with a rubber hose..that goes double for you Bertucco! (that would be both nostrils)

The ebay auction on my wheel set is heating up...soon I will have the funding for a Stages power meter and with it comes park race domination.....

Reads great.  Hope you stayed seated for all the rises; that kind of quality grind is good for power. Next stop, winter fixed-gear riding.