Thierry Bonnaire said:

He's way over the 20 points necessary for an upgrade. Sandbagging should not be allowed in my humble opinion.

Eric already went through this with a fine tooth comb. He's not auto. He only became cat 4 on 4/19. 4-3 upgrade points count from there after. None of his Killington results count. 

Mike - I don't understand your comment about KSR results not counting. As I understand the rules, his GC result doesn't matter (he gets no points for his GC result) but his result in each race stage would.

(To be clear, I don't care one way or the other whether this guy should be upgraded or not.)

It's 30 points for a mandatory 4-3. I despise relying on FBF, Rockleigh, Bethel for upgrade purposes. For 5-4 fine, but after that, I consider them training races. I made a FAQ (below). For Baris, he has Orchard BEach and Killington, plus a result or two from FBF to add to the mix. As such, he's not a mandatory (same story for Sam Frias). Frias got booted because it was the safest thing to do. Baris is just not there yet. If he wins White Plains, then he goes to Cat 3 and maybe he's just waiting to win the State Champs. I don't begrudge him that.

Thanks for the insight Mike.  His 3rd place result for the 3/4 race at Orchard Beach is pretty impressive though.  That was way faster than any Cat 4 race I've been in.

And I didn't mean to stir shit up, just some public bellyaching because I'm weak, weak like Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw

Thanks for the insight Eric R. It surely put things in perspective for me.

I reg'd for the 4 race and might do the 3/4 if there is day of and my legs and spirit are willing.

Niall, I'm heading up from GCT with my girlfriend around 8:30-9 am tomorrow with my bike. I was going to ride home but will prob take the train home and ride in the city instead. Only 3 stops on the Harlem line. Pretty convenient. 

There's an 8:25 train getting in at 9:16. And an 8:47 that gets in at 9:22. I'll be on whichever anyone else will be on (but otherwise the later one).

Train up and ride back then. @Phillip I'm shooting for the 8:25 train.

Fun, frustrating, safe, and hard. Glad I went up and raced today. No Kissenas in the money yet but I had to leave just when the 3/4 field started.

In regards to the P123 race, I'm looking forward to Marc's report because he's better at these sorts of things than I am. We both finished somewhere unimportant.

I will say that it was so fast that it almost felt like we didn't race at all.

For those who care, Foundation rolled deep (10+) again and strong armed the race. A group got up the road (early?) and eventually lapped the field. I think Evan Murphy is your new State Crit champ. Well deserved if that's true because he won this race last year by solo'ing late.

I will also add that there were some really (really) fast dudes that showed up for this one. It's a privilege to be able to race with them.

Quick update from the NYS Criterium Championships.

Cat 4s had a nice team race going. Yang, sick still, raced again with his nogg'n and captured 9th. Grehan in 13th.

Master's 35+/45+. Ragot and Bertucco at the start. Wilson Vasquez is the new state champ winning the race outright. Eric took his digs, going all or nothing after some moves including one with 3 to go, but it was ultimately a field sprint. Ragot didn't contest the sprint. I had a few lapses in concentration (more on this later), and paid for it. Ended up in 24th.

Master's 55+. Ed Nolan was the lone Kissena in this race. He was hanging tough, but I'm not sure how he finished. 19th maybe? Looked like a fast race with lots of strung out bits.

Cat 3/4. Niall reloaded and joined Craig for this show down. Niall is an absolute beast and excellent at maintaining his position at the front of the field, FYI. Craig was laser-focused and coming into the finishing sprint, he was 5th wheel. Officially, he was placed 4th, but he protested the finish due to some bodily contact with another racer. Not sure what the result of the protest was, either way, 4th place is a great finish.

Pro 1/2/3. Vlad and I were the sole representatives for this 40 lap race. That's kind of what is the killer of these races. Not that we were out there for 1 hour, but that we hit the corners 160 times. Crit racing is awesome yo. They had placed Vlad in 45th place, but I was not on the results sheet at all. (perfect, right) Fortunately, the lead official results dude wasn't one of those "you're not in the money, so I don't give an eff about where you finished" officials that I've run into over the years. He's remembers me from his notes and promises to get my name on the sheet. I finished around where Vlad did though. Give or take. I'll write something more "prosy" later on the day of racing complete with lessons and morals to share!

Craig won his appeal and was placed 3rd. Good job!

So, I've reflected on my racing today and finally can articulate how and why I race. I like results, but I want to get them my way. I prefer breakaways and then trying to win from them. I am not happy with waiting for a sprint like today's race. I didn't plan on a 6 mile solo effort to win. But the time was right to go and I expected someone to come with me. If it were a brands rider then they would not have chased and I think the end result would have been much different. Plus with three to go I saw another move forming that looked good. So I went for it and basically blew.

I don't care about the placing so much as the placing after good racing. That is all.

Hell yes Craig, awesome result!

Big hat tip Craig, that's impressive. If anyone had some sponsor friendly photos please share.

Congrats Craig. Awesome.

Sadly on 4th. They placed me 5th at first but the guy cashed into me as we threw out bikes at the line. Btw- the course is 6 lanes wide so. I reason for contact. When I have time I'll write some more later. Thanks Niall btw. Great riding today. How'd that battery work out?

Congrats Craig.

So, I've reflected on my racing today and finally can articulate how and why I race. I like results, but I want to get them my way. I prefer breakaways and then trying to win from them. I am not happy with waiting for a sprint like today's race. I didn't plan on a 6 mile solo effort to win. But the time was right to go and I expected someone to come with me. If it were a brands rider then they would not have chased and I think the end result would have been much different. Plus with three to go I saw another move forming that looked good. So I went for it and basically blew.

I don't care about the placing so much as the placing after good racing. That is all.

Unless it's the club championship

Around 20 or so minutes into the crit, I had to jump around a guy because he was throwing up. I heard him violently heaving as I rode past him. No bullshit. Didn't see him again.

Ahhh...you guys and your GIFs...love 'em all. This is long...any maybe boring...I don't have time to write it shorter. Sorry. Hopefully a few pieces of useful information for your own personal racing database.

Doing the double: Or why I broke my own rule.

Heading into a very important period of my racing calendar where I've got dreams of what might be possible at ToAD, I looked at the NYS Championship schedule, and decided that racing twice on Sunday was not only possible, but possibly a choice that would help me reach my goals in Wisconsin.

But my approach was very specific. I was all-in, racing "for the jersey" in the morning Championship master's race, and just trying to survive the pro race at the end of the day.

At this point, it's worth mentioning how my week of life and training was leading up to the race. Why do YOU care? Because throughout the season, you'll hear your teammates hem and haw, waffle, fence-sit, devise self-tests to help them decide if they are ready to race on a given weekend. And I understand, sometimes you just need to take a sick day or two, a weekend off of racing. I truly get that.

But I also don't want folks to convince themselves not to race just because they aren't feeling in tip-top shape. How you feel/ride on Thursday or Friday, isn't necessarily an accurate predictor of how you will perform on race day. This past week, I was in a general state of exhaustion. My workouts were cut short, there were times when I could barely stay awake while taking care of my toddler during the day. But I went to bed early on Saturday night, and hoped for the best. Because...

Sometimes you just got pin that number on, and get to get'n.

The course.
A 0.5-mile long, 4-corner crit with a big ring climb, screaming sweeping right turn, rising finish line, just enough depressed manhole covers, pavement pock marks, magic carpet-sized drain gaits, and a mix of asphalt, concrete and the accompanying awkward transitions to keep things interesting. (Dude, yes, that gap in the road is still there...just like the previous 20 laps. If you can't ride it, how about considering another line?)

The morning race: 35+/45+
The combination of an unnecessarily frustrating parking situation and a bizarrely long pre-reg line, left me with very little time for a proper pre-crit warm-up. Most of you know, how I much I preach the importance of a good, REAL warm-up before the race starts.  Ragot is nonplussed at my situation and says, "So, you just spend the first half of the race warming up." Well, yes...I was going to have to do that, but rather than risk getting dropped with cold legs at the back of the pack, I had a plan.

If you've ever been to one of my crit workshops, you may remember my "race to the first corner" drill? Well, I made sure that I got to staging area early, and when they called us to the line, I was sure to get a spot on the front line, in exactly the perfect spot on the outside of the course. With 4 right turns in a course, picking/taking the fast line doesn't have to be complicated.

Hole shot king? And the whistle blows, in my 53x23, I spin my way to and through the first corner in first position. Bump-chunk-rattle-roll....okay, this transition zone is a little dicey. Better keep on the gas to see what turn 2 is like at speed. Okay up the rise, I'm still spinning, back off the throttle, I've got a gap? Yup, I sure do. Turn 3 is the fast sweeper. By the end of the day, I was bombing this turn with abandon and joy. But those first few laps, before I fully tested the adhesion of my tires to the ground, I confess, my butt cheeks were puckered. Still have a gap. Turn 4, lots of waves and bumps on the homestretch, don't fight the bike, let it roll. I pass through the start finish still in the lead. Finally the field is on my and I settle in to the front-ish of the field.

The race is on. Ragot is doing his thing. I'm sitting pretty comfortably, but don't have the juice to counter any of his moves without risking getting popped and dropped. Sorry Eric, couldn't afford to get dropped this weekend. With a bigger team, with more guns we could have gotten some business done.

Concentration fail. Somewhere around 12 or 10 laps to go, I start to get bored-frustrated. I don't have the juice to take poke off the front, and yet, I'm nowhere near getting dropped in this race. My mind flashes back to Superweek Cat 3 races in the late 1990s. 1 hour 45 minute crits, and I was one of the stronger guys, but just couldn't finish off these races with a flourish/result. MUST WORK ON END GAME! On the one hand it's a good place to be (last year I'm getting dropped in these caliber of races), on the other hand, for the first time all race I've drifted to the back of the peloton and...

CRASH! What the what?!?!? Of course. 1st corner, guys spread out from the inside apex to almost the outside corner. I hammer the breaks, roll around the mess. I'm upright, but the front half of the field is GONE. Instant decision time, do I roll into the pit and hope they'll give me a free lap? Or do I chase, with the expectation that they won't give me the free lap because I technically did not go down in the crash.

CHASE!!! Game on bruhtha. I put my head down and put in what might have been the hardest 2 laps of the day for me. I get back on the back of the peloton, with 8 laps to go, I'm smoked, but I'm back in the action all legal like. Now it takes me two or three laps to recover, with just a handful of laps to set up for the final sprint. Too much, too late, still too tired from my chase. Blurg. Roll in 24th place. Wondering if I should just call it a day and forget about racing the Pro race later in the day.


The afternoon race: Pro 1/2/3
It's been kind of long day. Enjoyed watching KCC racing other events, chatting, pep talks, etc. But it's hot out, I've got a crampy stomach and the last race of the day is going to be hella-fast-hard! I roll up to Vlad, the only other KCC rider in this event. We chat briefly about strategy, goals. Both of us are here to "not embarrass" ourselves. Vlad is more confident than I and thinks about doing something at the end of the race if he's feeling good. I'm just want to finish. Last year I lasted 10 minutes of this race. 10 minutes.

Hole Shot King! With a stacked field, and highly questionable legs, I wasn't going to mess around at the start of the race. I use mad CX skills to jump off a curb and get to the start line in the exact same position I had for the master's race. Wilson Vasquez lines up right next to me and puts it in a little gear. He's thinking the same thing, no doubt. I'm nervous. 22+ years of racing and yes, I still get nervous. I'm shaking. Good. I'm alive. Whistle blows and I'm gone. In a flash, hit the first corner in first position, corner two I carve it in the lead, corner three, the fast descending sweeper, I'm still in the lead. I give it up for turn four, and settle into the frontish of the field.

BY TAKING THE HOLE SHOT IN BOTH MY RACES, AND SETTING MYSELF NEAR THE FRONT TO THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD, MY REST PERIODS WERE LONGER, TURNS WERE FASTER, AND HARD PERIODS SHORTER. I NEVER HAD TO PUT OUT WATTAGE THAT WAS UNAVAILABLE TO ME.

The race. Things are faster this race. No question. I expect things to be single file all day long. And I ride to minimize the ouchy, and maximize the rest. Hitting the out of the saddle climb, I watch others continue to pound out the big gear. I'm two click-shifts easier and spin up the left side. When the front of the field sits up I keep my "sit-n-spin" rhythm going moving up here and there, making up for spots I lose here and there, lap after lap. Kind of like running up a down escalator. If you are not moving forward, you are moving backwards.

The break. 2 foundations and Lupus' Hoffman get away, and instead of single file action all day long, it seemed pretty reasonable at the front. Mengoni wasn't exactly emptying the tank to bring things back, Neither United nor Dave Jordan. No one really had the numbers or will to do anything. And so, while I expected 40 laps of strung out madness, with a few spots of rest here or there, it was kind of the opposite. I never felt on the rev-limiter for more than a moment or two all race.

The finish. With 30 laps in the book and just 10 to go, I still wasn't exactly confident of being able to finish. I had this moment where it was kind of ouchy fast, and I thought, "I could quit now and feel pretty good about what I've accomplished today." Fortunately, I snapped out of that ridiculous fog and got back into the action and actually started thinking about positioning for the finish. With just one lap to go, it was strung out and folks were sitting up left and right. Up the home stretch, I didn't want to be the tool sprinting for 40th place, but I kind of wanted 40th place, so I juiced it a bit, stayed in the saddle passed a bunch and was rewarded for my half-ass effort by probably getting passed by Vlad (shakes fist) exactly at the moment at which we crossed the line, totally blocking me from the camera, which might explain why I don't even exist on the official results. Serves me right.

Next time if I'm sprinting, I'm sprinting all out. Vlad, Ragot (who pulled a similar 'pipping me on the line' move at Somerville) you're both on notice. I like sprinting. I like the body mechanics, the form, the effort. It feels very primal and is rewarding.

All in all, a nice day at the races for Kissena. Nice to see so much good racing out there. We didn't collect any State Championship jerseys this year, but I'm hopeful we can pull it together next year.

eragot said:

So, I've reflected on my racing today and finally can articulate how and why I race. I like results, but I want to get them my way. I prefer breakaways and then trying to win from them. I am not happy with waiting for a sprint like today's race. I didn't plan on a 6 mile solo effort to win. But the time was right to go and I expected someone to come with me. If it were a brands rider then they would not have chased and I think the end result would have been much different. Plus with three to go I saw another move forming that looked good. So I went for it and basically blew. I don't care about the placing so much as the placing after good racing. That is all.

While I fully support your and anyone's right to race how you/they want to race. I do think it's somewhat a shame that as the somewhat rare rider who is both a threat in breakaways and sprints, you're basically giving away at least half of your opportunities to place.

You may want to reconsider this position going into Harlem. While, with a tighter Harlem course, a breakaway is possible, it is still not likely. So far, for example you only have one teammate signed up to race. And expecting other teams to race smart, has proven to be a fools mission.

@Marc the real question is what bike did you race?

Jules said:

@Marc the real question is what bike did you race?

Ha! Well as I told David after a race. Every day, I have to make a decision after Peter goes to bed and Sarah is home. Make dinner, eat and relaxing with a few TV shows before bed? Or slam some food and work on a bike? Dinner/relax/tv always wins out.

But tonight, no TV, possibly ordering food....

While it is true I can do both, I can't sit in to sprint. Just too boring. If my break attempt doesn't happen to late I sometimes switch over to sprint. Usually, I switch to leaddout.

eragot said:

So, I've reflected on my racing today and finally can articulate how and why I race. I like results, but I want to get them my way. I prefer breakaways and then trying to win from them. I am not happy with waiting for a sprint like today's race. I didn't plan on a 6 mile solo effort to win. But the time was right to go and I expected someone to come with me. If it were a brands rider then they would not have chased and I think the end result would have been much different. Plus with three to go I saw another move forming that looked good. So I went for it and basically blew.

I don't care about the placing so much as the placing after good racing. That is all.

While I fully support your and anyone's right to race how you/they want to race. I do think it's somewhat a shame that as the somewhat rare rider who is both a threat in breakaways and sprints, you're basically giving away at least half of your opportunities to place.

You may want to reconsider this position going into Harlem. While, with a tighter Harlem course, a breakaway is possible, it is still not likely. So far, for example you only have one teammate signed up to race. And expecting other teams to race smart, has proven to be a fools mission.

For anyone who looks at these sorts of things and cares, this is my power distribution chart for the P123 race. Trainingpeaks has my avg at 215W with normalized at 214W. It's one of the most peculiar ones I've ever made/seen.. It's all about those corners and the shortness of the course.

^thanks for sharing Vlad.  I find this stuff endlessly interesting.

FWIW the cat4 race was surely easier and after the final sprint I saw a CIS guy pull over and puke at corner 2.

I don't have power but my HR shows 180+ for nearly the entire race, peaking out at 192. For reference I usually top out at 185 during my hardest intervals and that's like :30-1min at a time.