Bicycle Tech/Gear Discussion Thread

Sep 05, 2014 at 12:43 AM

Vlad,

I expect these brakes will be on aero road and tt bikes first. Then endurance bikes. And from there, we'll see. When the frame designers shape carbon at the brake bridge and fork crown to better hide the brakes from the wind, they've pretty much erased the marginal gains that the integrated v-brakes gave those same bikes, and the direct mounts are easier to use, adjust, service,and feel better. After that, we'll see where they go.

to me, the shimano design is a careful copy of the ee-cycleworks e-brakes, but with a much easier to use quick release. I assume ee-cycleworks has some patents protecting their design, so there's only so much that can be directly copied.

Jules

Sep 09, 2014 at 12:43 AM

Tubular question: my tire that rolled had the base tape come off the tire itself. This happened to some older Dugasts of mine; the base tape stayed well stuck to the rim and came off the tire easily.

What's the drill? Pull the whole tire off of the base tape and then reglue it? Add a second layer of base tape and do a home grown belgian?

#aintCXseasonwithoutgluingquestions

jesselash

Sep 09, 2014 at 04:06 PM

The great debate... I'm getting a road bike, and between Force 22 and Ultegra Di2. Best groupset I've spent any time with is 2011 Red on my CX bike, so I recognize either one will be a nice upgrade.

Anyone have strong opinions either way?

Dan Reiners

Sep 09, 2014 at 04:30 PM

Having ridden neither, I still have strong opinions. Force 22 all the way. So much nicer looking and all, and no batteries to deal with.

What about Ultegra 6800 mechanical?

Jules

Sep 09, 2014 at 05:07 PM

jesselash said:

The great debate... I'm getting a road bike, and between Force 22 and Ultegra Di2. Best groupset I've spent any time with is 2011 Red on my CX bike, so I recognize either one will be a nice upgrade.

Anyone have strong opinions either way?

If you can swing it, Di2. No debate.

Brendan Rigby

Sep 09, 2014 at 07:24 PM

Test each and decide. Some people, like Fabian Cancellara, prefer mechanical to Di2. Apparently the itty bitty buttons don't provide enough feedback for some tastes.

twoyacks

Sep 09, 2014 at 07:45 PM

jesselash said:

The great debate... I'm getting a road bike, and between Force 22 and Ultegra Di2.

I believe this is what's called...rich people problems

SRAM is working on a new wireless system...can you wait for that? Otherwise I would say Di2...I have been on an original SRAM Red brifters, der's since they launched and it's been great. Electronic shifting is clearly the now and the future

vlad

Sep 09, 2014 at 09:46 PM

Ultegra Di2 all the way.

jesselash

Sep 09, 2014 at 09:47 PM

@twoyacks, probably won't be able to wait, as I'm getting a frame built and the builder needs it complete for a show. Looking into Di2 for now.

ian ellis

Sep 09, 2014 at 09:49 PM

I've never ridden SRAM, but some of the top mechanical groups are great and shift really well. Dura Ace 7800 is a good example (better than 7900 IMO). Campagnolo Record is wonderful and has some great features like upshifting 3 sprockets and downshifting almost an entire cassette in one go.

However Di2 outshines all of these. It has fewer nifty features than most mechanical drivetrains, but the one thing it does (shift up or down one sprocket) it does consistently and reliably every single time.

The thing I like about it best is that it is more tolerant of wheel changes. Changing to a different wheel, with slightly different hub and/or cassette dimensions often cause mechanical drivetrains to be noisy or mis-shift. Di2 just deals with it.

twoyacks

Sep 09, 2014 at 09:54 PM

jesselash said:

@twoyacks, probably won't be able to wait, as I'm getting a frame built and the builder needs it complete for a show. Looking into Di2 for now.

oh so the builder needs the kit for a show build....again....RICH PEOPLE PROBLEMS !!!!!

vlad

Sep 09, 2014 at 10:15 PM

Tangent -

SRAM wireless electronic is doomed/impractical. I mean, if each component (shifter, derailleur) needs it's own radio and battery, not only are you introducing more points of failure, but you're also limiting the battery capacity and making it more of a hassle to charge.

The great thing about Di2 is that you charge the battery twice a year. 3 times tops.

twoyacks

Sep 10, 2014 at 01:30 AM

SRAM vs Dura Ace...not since the great VHS vs. Betamax have we seen such a tussle...

504x_beta-vhs.jpg

Marc Bertucco

Sep 10, 2014 at 01:55 AM

From my days working at a TV station in Chicago, I heard that betamax was always the superior format from an A/V point of view. But pornographers started using VHS and that's that...

My two cents, is that in the year 2000-never, when I get a new cross bike, I'm going to equip it with the same brand of components as my road bike so that I have the option of swapping/borrowing parts should need/desire arise.

JohnMalcolmson

Sep 10, 2014 at 04:28 AM

Agree with Ian, DI2 is very reliable and precise. Option for shift buttons on the tops and sprint switch closes the deal.

Like Yaks, I am skeptical of wireless -- think cordless vs wired mouse for what will go wrong -- on the startling trying to pair your Bluetooth rear derailer anyone?

mugwump

Sep 10, 2014 at 06:11 AM

Marc Bertucco said:

From my days working at a TV station in Chicago, I heard that betamax was always the superior format from an A/V point of view. But pornographers started using VHS and that's that...

My two cents, is that in the year 2000-never, when I get a new cross bike, I'm going to equip it with the same brand of components as my road bike so that I have the option of swapping/borrowing parts should need/desire arise.

the internet is as good as it is thanks to porn....but I digress.

I agree with having the same components on road and cross bikes. It's also just that much easier to switch from one bike to the next if you don't have to think about "wait,do I move which button/lever/paddle to shift up?"

I'd do Ultegra 6800 before Di2. Cheaper, lighter. And the internal battery won't ever die on race day

mperlberg

Sep 10, 2014 at 09:51 AM

FWIW, I ride SRAM Force and Rival on my cross bikes, and dura ace on the road. I don't ride and race on the road a whole lot during cross season, but when I do it's never been an issue going back and forth between bikes.

eloy

Sep 10, 2014 at 03:36 PM

Figure I might as well ask...

In the context of cyclocross, how are disc brakes better than cantilevers?

I understand that discs are more expensive, so manufacturers have a higher markup, but otherwise, I honestly don't get it.

Can someone please explain?

Mark Taylor

Sep 11, 2014 at 12:47 AM

twoyacks said:

SRAM vs Dura Ace...not since the great VHS vs. Betamax have we seen such a tussle...

As an old friend once said"Shimano, they make fishing reels"

mugwump

Sep 11, 2014 at 07:10 AM

eloy said:

Figure I might as well ask...

In the context of cyclocross, how are disc brakes better than cantilevers?

I understand that discs are more expensive, so manufacturers have a higher markup, but otherwise, I honestly don't get it.

Can someone please explain?

We've discussed discs several times already. I think in this thread. I'd weigh in, but fear we'd just be rehashing the old points.

konrad

Sep 11, 2014 at 01:38 PM

@eloy. They freeze and don't work when it's cold out so you go faster.

Marc Bertucco

Sep 11, 2014 at 02:05 PM

@eloy, I think the stock answers are...

From the disc brake camp: is that breaking effort is easier, modulation more precise and eliminates mud clogging/clearance issues.

From the other side: they point to bike weight penalty, inconsistent/rapid brake pad wear in wet/muddy conditions, complicated wheel changes.

That said, even Adam Myerson who is not a fan of the disc brakes and is back to cantis this year, admits that disc is the future of the sport. He's just going to hold out as long as possible. And will also attempt to wait until "thru axel" standards settle.

Rick Perner

Sep 11, 2014 at 02:11 PM

Helen Wyman likes em……

http://road.cc/content/feature/99736-cyclocross-star-helen-wyman-talks-racing-disc-brakes…-and-future

dstokes

Sep 11, 2014 at 02:21 PM

They are all tools. I wouldn't believe anything a pro said in print.

Marc Bertucco

Sep 11, 2014 at 02:29 PM

dstokes said:

They are all tools. I wouldn't believe anything a pro said in print.

I got into it a bit with Powers a year or so ago over twitter. And digging (not too deep) underneath his defense he said "if" you get the right top secret pads, if you get special non-standard rotors (or they weren't at the time, I looked), then they are great.

eloy

Sep 11, 2014 at 03:04 PM

I can't believe the mud part. The structure of the brakes would hold all the mud.

I mean on really muddy races (not the cute corner at Nittany) anything that protudes from the frame (derailleurs, for example) catches mud forever.

Joaquin

Sep 11, 2014 at 03:25 PM

But that structure also clears the mud off the rotor as it brakes. And moving the structure away from the tire and rim (which creates a chokepoint) ultimately means way less trouble with mud. MTBers can testify. Also, as the kinks get worked out over the coming years, the disc systems are going to get undeniably superior to rim brakes, both from a reliability and performance standpoint, IMO. The explosion of hydraulic systems this year is an example (such systems addressing some of the consistency and cold weather issues discussed earlier in this thread). The evolution of discs in MTB is a good comparison. After using newer MTB systems, I can say that no rim brake feels nearly as good, which makes me hopeful that standards/quality/price for CX disc systems get worked out sooner rather than later. But I also agree that there's no urgency to jump ship to discs just yet, if you're still happy with your cantis.

vlad

Sep 11, 2014 at 03:36 PM

Motorcycles use disc brakes too. They are superior. Period. Necessary on bikes? Arguable.

dstokes

Sep 11, 2014 at 07:50 PM

Motorcycles are heavier (mass).
Motorcycles go faster (velocity).
Motorcycles have a lot more momentum (mass*velocity) and a hell of a lot more energy to dissipate (mass*velocity(squared)).

Let's compare. . .
bike plus rider = 80 kg, velocity = 24 km/h (or 6.67 m/sec for cross).
momentum = 533 kg-m/s, energy = 3.5 kJ

motorcycle plus rider = 300 kg, velocity = 96 km/h (or 26.7 m/sec on the highway)
momentum = 8000 kg-m/s, energy = 214 kJ

twoyacks

Sep 11, 2014 at 07:57 PM

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/09/interbike/brim-brothers-launches-999-cleat-based-power-meter_345153

This thing looks DOA