Propel propriety seat clamp wants 7 nM torque: https://www.pedalon.co.uk/acatalog/Vector.pdf

the manual JP linked to does seem to have torque specs for all manner of bolts on Giant Bicycles, see page 35-37, https://www.giant-bicycles.com/_upload_au/Global Owner's Manual_v02_EN_20130902.pdf

it lists them by bolt type, M8, M5, etc., which apparently refers to the  spacing between threads, see http://www.thomsonrail.com/Technical Resources/A short guide to metric nuts and bolts.pdf at 3.  you could measure that after removing the bolt to figure out how much to give it.

I'd just call Redbeard and ask what they tighten their bolts to.  they build Giant bikes all day.  don't want to crack your carbon.

I just ordered some of these $160 delivered with the fathers day coupon.
Been on x-series speedplays fo-evah...I'll give these a try...if it doesn't work out...off to ebay

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/time-time-pedals-road-time-xpresso-12-titanium-carbon-pedals/timepeda675

Yack,
     I would have suggested Speedplay Zeros.

may wind up there...but for now my right knee patella is still wonky and I'm willing to try something different to see if it can be alleviated

"Good question and good comparison. 

Both pedals are excellent systems, and that is not a political answer. They both have significant stregths, and significant weaknesses. Luckily, their strengths and weakness offset each other. 

A big advantage to Speedplay is that it is the most tunable, "fittable" pedal system commonly available. With adjustable rotational movement on the Zero series (our favorite) and a selection of spindle/axle widths along with very low stack height the system enables your fitter to precisely align you pedals for optimal anatomical and ergonomic efficiency. Good. 

The big problem with Speedplay pedals is that they are the most tunable, fittable pedal system commonly available. In other words, unless a fitter knows what they are doing with the system they either aren't taking advantage of the primary attributes you just paid for or they may make adjustement erros that could have undesireable- possible serious- consequences. 

Despite Speedplay's aggressive marketing to the contrary, they are a small platform system ideal for shoe sizes below size 10 US and best for riders below 180 pounds. The titanium spindle system actually has a weight limit I can't recall off the top of my head, but is well below 200 lbs (170?). 

The single most significant concern we have with Speedplay is that the system can develop very significant lateral instability enabling the foot to "roll" or rock side-to-side on the pedal platform. As this movement translates up the tibia it exerts substantial leverage on the knee laterally. Not good. This is especially conspicuous on out of the saddle efforts. We shot video of this phenomenon from behind when a cyclist was riding with Speedplays on a trainer and customers could not believe what they were seeing. The cyclist's foot rocked almost four degrees from left to right as though they were standing on an unstable ice skate. 

Now, this is not a problem for everyone. However, if your feet are wide enough, you pronate enough and/or youo have large enough feet it is likely you will experience this side-to-side rocking to some degree. Speedplay is not only a small platform system, they are also a very narrow platform system. That narrow width may reduce lateral support of the shoe sole enough to create an issue for some cyclists. 

Time RXS has a slightly wider platform and does have some limited, elegant and simple adjustment built into the pedal and cleat. It is a simple, easy to use system that provides good lateral support, is lightweight (although heavier slightly than Speedplay's comparable material models) and easy to set up if you read the written instructions first- which you should always do. 

Time was subject to an annoying recall a few years ago that has been cleared up or at least a year and a half now. Some users have broken the toe portion of their Time RXS pedals off. Although this is extremely rare it is a warranty situation provided it is not the result of a crash. In over 1000 pedal sales since the system came out we have actually seen only one broken pedal. 

The Time system provides better lateral support of the width of the shoe sole and may be a better choice for the larger foot/heavier rider. Buy the gray versio and save a few bucks since there is no tangible difference between the gray version and the black, so-called "Carbon" version that is more expensive. 

For triathletes cleat durability is an issue and Time does have an edge here over Speedplay when running on cleats through a dirty transition area. Speedplay used to be awful at this- nearly unuaeable on the older "X" series cleats becasue of the spring configuration. The newer Zero series retention spring in the cleat is much less prone to dirt fowling and more walkable although still fragile compared to Time's robust RXS cleat. 

Here are some resources to look at before you buy: "

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/...ures/rxspedals.shtml 
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/speed0.shtml 

Fitting time for this discussion. After almost a year on my Shimano SPD's (I've only been riding my CX bike) my Zeros feel WAY too loose.

Where is that quote from Yaks?

I was thinking of making it a clean-Shimano sweep by adding the pedals to my road bike.

Thoughts?

As a former skeptic of Speedplay, let me weigh in.

Zeros are the easiest pedal system to tune the float on.  Start by setting the inside limit screw just far enough so your heel doesn't hit the crank or stays.  Leave the outside limit as loose as possible.  Then, after riding some, you can start to move it inwards a bit.  You have pain?  Move it out again.  I went from the total float of the X/2's to almost zero float on the Zeros, and have had no knee trouble at all.  Did it all on my own.

I agree that the platform size can feel small.  However, with the latest several generations of carbon soles on the market, the lack of platform is basically unnocticable.  FWIW, my shoe size is 10.5-11.5 depending on the brand.  In cycling shoes, I run from a 44.5 to 46 depending on the brand. (I think the ti' spindle limit was 185lbs)

The lateral instability is from cleat and/or  pedal wear.  The Zero cleat wears more slowly than the X/2, but even then, I see that too many people wait too long before replacing cleats.  I'll add that the stainless steel wear protector, designed for mounting the four-bolt cleat directly to the shoe slows wear even more.  

But by all means, give it a shot.  I'm interested to know what you think.

Agree with JP. I've given Time a good go and do like them, but for me the Zero's make the pedal a non issue all the way around. I can put out close to 1400W and weigh 200lbs — no prob with the stainless spindles.

Nice free upgrade too are the new aero cleats Speedplay just released, makes for easy walking also. They make Time/Look look very clunky and heavy.

My only Speedplay peeve is the weather seals, this pedal does not do well in rain and you need to shoot grease in there every few months or risk pedal bearing seize. Time are bomb proof in this respect.

Jules:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Speedplay_or_Time_RXS_P1670196/
Whenever I get stuck in the rain...I use my grease gun to purge my speedplays...takes 5 minutes and I have brand new grease in the bodies.
My knee problem is such that going to the zeroes from the X/1's likely won't make a difference...or it might???  a different pedal altogether may not solve my issues...or it might?
I haven't received the Time pedals yet....so haven't mounted them.  Have some concerns about a mid season pedal swap...but Summer is here and I have lots of time to sort out these issues.  

Jules,
      Zero out the play on the zeros, or come close to it.  

I used to ride Shimano pedals, but that's when they were the "small platform" SPD style. Ive been on zeroes ever since, and I'm definitely one of those "don't change your cleats enough" folks. I think most of you would be horrified with the amount of rock and roll I get as a result. But it seems to work okay for me.

Honestly, I hope you find a solution Yacks, even if it's riding with toe clips or white birch branches lubed with unicorn tears. Because, a healthy Yacks, is a strong and powerful aly.

Andy Pruitt just retired, but when I did see him he referred to my knee issue as "speedplay knee" that was very common when there is too much float allowed.

Interestingly he was still a huge proponent of them because you can buy them in variable spindle lengths - something they're still the only manufacturer (WumP?) to do.

I'm going to go home, change out my cleats and start from zero float and see if that feels better.

This morning's commute was a joy on my cx bike compared to the slip & slop ride this morning.

I shoot grease into the pedals about as often as I check the bottom bracket - maybe four times a year or if they start to feel crunchy.

Jules said:

Andy Pruitt just retired, but when I did see him he referred to my knee issue as "speedplay knee" that was very common when there is too much float allowed.

Interestingly he was still a huge proponent of them because you can buy them in variable spindle lengths - something they're still the only manufacturer (WumP?) to do.

I'm going to go home, change out my cleats and start from zero float and see if that feels better.

This morning's commute was a joy on my cx bike compared to the slip & slop ride this morning.

I shoot grease into the pedals about as often as I check the bottom bracket - maybe four times a year or if they start to feel crunchy.

Jules,
     Keywin (aka the Ragot pedal) makes different spindle lengths.  They're the only other one I know of.  

     Speedplay also makes a three-bolt plate that allows more fore-aft adjustment than the standard.  All told, Speedplays are quite adaptable.  

     Time, btw, takes care of lateral adjustment by designing the cleats so that in one orientation, you're feet have a more narrow stance and in another (swapping the left for the right and vice versa)  you have a wider stance.

I used to ride Keywin back in NZ, the first iterations had zero float which was awful for knees (unless you had absolutely perfect fit).

If the Speedplay's spin freely that is the sign to re-grease. 

mugwump said:

As a former skeptic of Speedplay, let me weigh in.

Zeros are the easiest pedal system to tune the float on.  Start by setting the inside limit screw just far enough so your heel doesn't hit the crank or stays.  Leave the outside limit as loose as possible.  Then, after riding some, you can start to move it inwards a bit.  You have pain?  Move it out again.  I went from the total float of the X/2's to almost zero float on the Zeros, and have had no knee trouble at all.  Did it all on my own.

wanted to add a bit of tuning advice.  Move the inside limit screw so that your heel and shoe, while covered by your thickest booties, doesn't rub the crank or stays.  Hard to think of on hot days.

Well about that "WAY too loose?"
Would have helped a lot to use the correct pedals. After changing the cleats and wrenching down the limit screws I *still* had infinite float....

GADZOOKS!!! I was using old (x style?) pedals. Hazards of tossing all the parts for my bike into a bin of spare stuff.

Swapped in the correct pedals and everything is right as rain - although I want to state for the record - the Creamsicle does NOT like rain. She's too pretty for that.

My Time Xpresso's should be here by next week

Speaking of speedplays, when I first got them they unclipped with just fine, now the left one (which i usually use to put my foot down) would not unclip this morning, any ideas?

Throw some dry lube at the cleat.

Check the cleats and pedals for anything that is clogging the mechanisms.  Check to make sure the four cleat retention screws are not over tight, thus squeezing the spring, thus precluding engagement.
Lube the bars on the cleat spring...push them with your fingers to make sure they move

The word on the street that the new CAAD12 will be arriving in dealer's showrooms very shortly.

SeanMiles said:

Speaking of speedplays, when I first got them they unclipped with just fine, now the left one (which i usually use to put my foot down) would not unclip this morning, any ideas?

Dry lube

or....any other pedal type which needs not even 1/100th of the babysitting that Speedplays do.  There you go, Adam's top tip for the week.  Come back Monday for more great input.

Dry lube did the trick. Thanks 

Bikes that are one solid color are the hotness...new caad12

looks a lot like the 10

Obviously the internal cable routing and skinnier fork merit the +2

Love the color, they finally figured it out.

Bah. Not enough orange.

How's bout some Molteni Orange then???

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