Bicycle Tech/Gear Discussion Thread

Aug 06, 2013 at 08:25 PM

vlad said:
@Adam, it's a pain in the ass to setup and maintain, but it's kind of cool if you have the patience and the means. IMO, tubeless is certainly not better than alternatives, especially tubulars when it comes to racing, but it's not that bad either... just a pain in the ass and a little messy.
@Vlad I still don't get it. If they aren't better than tubulars and a pita to boot why bother? Just one less set of wheels?

vlad

Aug 06, 2013 at 09:35 PM

It's just fun to try something different. Why not? Keeps things interesting.

Initially I bought them to avoid flats at Floyd. They were good for that although I wound up switching to Conti 4-seasons as my all puprose training and shit course racing tire. Why? Because I felt like trying something different.

Jules

Aug 07, 2013 at 12:43 AM

@Vlad I get the "new for new" sake. I actually don't understand the tubeless sales pitch. They seem more finicky than tubulars and not as easy as clinchers...

mugwump

Aug 07, 2013 at 02:05 AM

Jules,

They're higher performance than heavy training tires, more flat-proof than high performance race tires.

Adam

Aug 07, 2013 at 02:09 AM

Vlad. You've sold me. Clinchers it is. I was just checking to see if I was missing anything and for the most part, the major response to tubeless is "Meh". Plus, I have this (probably unfounded) fear of having big problems at the side of the road in 22 degree weather in January and getting sealant spunk all over me and my bike as my hands gradually freeze and become too useless to change a tyre leaving me to be found hours later, feral, 5 inches of beard, shivering uncontrollably speaking jibberish having burned what remained of my bike for firewood.

Jules

Aug 07, 2013 at 02:17 AM

Adam said:

me to be found hours later, feral, 5 inches of beard, shivering uncontrollably speaking jibberish having

Sounds like a normal out of town race to me...

Jules

Aug 07, 2013 at 02:22 PM

Vector Pedals have arrived (finalmente)

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/08/news/unboxed-garmin-re-launches-vector-pedal-based-power-meter_298062

Jeff Condon

Aug 07, 2013 at 03:26 PM

Jules said:

Vector Pedals have arrived (finalmente)

Yeah I saw this. Would love to get people's opinion. Any inside industry insights, JP?

Jeff Owens

Aug 07, 2013 at 04:15 PM

Gonna be awesome when you slide out and they're destroyed!

Mark Clifford

Aug 07, 2013 at 04:28 PM

interesting that they went with the look system when everyone, particularly everyone on this forum, agrees that the speedplay system is infinitely superior.

mugwump

Aug 07, 2013 at 04:37 PM

@Mark,

Funny. When the idea first came to light, it was with speedplays, both because of popularity and because the axle is partially hollowed out--easier to put in the electronics. But that proved problemmatic, proabably because the electronics needed more room and Speedplay didn't want to change anything and wasn't going to accept an after-market axle. I think they went with Exustar because they specialize in knock-offs and thus would make anything to the designer's spec.

Bike radar has a "First RIde" review. http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/accessories/product/review-garmin-vector-power-meter-14-47478

It's a strange one. The power registers lower than a PT-hubbed wheel. As we know, consistency is more impmortant than accuracy, but something seems wrong to me about the power registering lower--considering the friction losses of the chain, hub-based power units register lower than crank based, as the power is generated at the crank, so why would pedal-based be lower than at the hub? And they didn't ask Garmin about this; Garmin must have an answer.

Strikes me that the pedal unit is not quite ready. But maybe they'll be making frequent firmware updates to overcome this. Stages is still doing firmware updates and has supposedly improved greatly since the winter.

dstokes

Aug 07, 2013 at 04:50 PM

@Mark: I do not think there was a consensus about speedplay. Only a small minority of people spoke about it and even then there seem to be plenty of complaints that you don't hear users of other pedals talking about.

It would be easy to ascribe a 7-20 W difference to improper calibration. For example, the magnification of our electron microscopes - which are 3 orders of magnitude more expensive - are different from the nominal values listed by the manufacturers by 5-15%. We just use a standard specimen to calibrate the actual magnification, which we sometimes care about and sometimes don't.

Since Jules reposted in this more appropriate thread, I will repost my initial response below:

I am excited by this development. I don't think I care about the new technology, nor the convenience of switching bikes (it is no good for 'cross). But I think it means that prices of power meters will be falling and lots of the old fashioned models will appear on the used market. The $1700 entry price for this Garmin model reminds me of the discussion we were having about price gouging. Although they have to recoup the development costs, this will be offset by a boost to their computer sales, which I gather has been losing market share. Specifically, the ability to independently record power from right and left pedals is not a standard feature of the current ANT+ computers.

Mark Clifford

Aug 07, 2013 at 04:52 PM

@dstokes .. yes, i know. it was a joke.

mugwump

Aug 07, 2013 at 05:40 PM

dstokes said:

It would be easy to ascribe a 7-20 W difference to improper calibration. For example, the magnification of our electron microscopes - which are 3 orders of magnitude more expensive - are different from the nominal values listed by the manufacturers by 5-15%. We just use a standard specimen to calibrate the actual magnification, which we sometimes care about and sometimes don't.

Yes, I'm sure calibration can make a huge difference. The thing is Bikeradar didn't buy this in a shop, they were sent it by Garmin. And I would have thought Garmin would have offered advice on proper calibration. Even if they didn't, Garmin should have a good response for what the Bikeradar folks experienced.

BTW, the left-right balance can be found if you use a Quarq Elsa and a Garmin computer. It's not the same, but probably as close. When I tested out the left-right balance on the Garmin Vector prototype a few years ago, it came out about the same as what I'm getting on my Quarq today--even if I pedaled with only one leg, the head unit registered some force, like 30% or more on the empty pedal.

Craig Zolan

Aug 07, 2013 at 08:37 PM

After reading the articles and their discussion of updating the firmware on the Garmin Edges it prompted be to wonder if there is an update and is it worthwhile to do. Anyone update their Edge in the last year? Is it worth it due to new features, improved data, etc? Mine is working fine and don't want to run the risk of damaging it if there is little to be gained. I don't know what firmware version I'm currently running as I sit here in the office.

Jeff Condon

Aug 07, 2013 at 09:20 PM

@craig I updated this year and it solved an issue I was having, though I can't remember what that issue was now. I'm sure this information is very helpful to you. #longdayattheoffice

twoyacks

Aug 08, 2013 at 01:12 PM

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FRPXKV2/planet-x-kaffenback-swap-out-frame

this bike is ingenious....it has replaceable dropouts....you can set it up as a road bike, cross bike or track bike.

I think we should do a kickstarter for this frame. A volunteer would have to use the frame for an entire season of road, cross and track racing.

I am thinking of getting one to use as a fixie....and if the mood ever strikes me I could throw on some brakes and cross tires and use it as a single speed cyclocross bike (or geared...u can do that too with this thing.)

yacks

eragot

Aug 08, 2013 at 01:17 PM

I volunteer.

What am I thinking...

twoyacks

Aug 08, 2013 at 02:02 PM

It's the village bicycle....everyone gets a ride...yeah baby...YEAH !

ian ellis

Aug 08, 2013 at 04:07 PM

I have a damaged jacket that I would like to get repaired. I know JP knows a good seamstress up near Central Park, but I am sure I read here of a reference for someone in Brooklyn ?

Brendan Rigby

Aug 08, 2013 at 05:55 PM

not sure what type of damage you have nor what type of jacket, but these $7 Gore Tex patches were the cheapest way to cover up several road-rash holes in my water/windproof winter jacket. put them on my tights too

Phil Maronilla

Aug 09, 2013 at 08:16 PM

MTB question - WTB Wolverine 1.95 versus Karma Pro 2.0

Does anyone have any experience riding XC hard pack, minimal root, single track trails with either? Which is better?

Marc Bertucco

Aug 11, 2013 at 01:40 AM

You know what I hate? ALL "how to true a wheel" youtube videos. Because none of them will actually tell me which way to turn the wrench to tighten or loosen. Blurg.

dstokes

Aug 11, 2013 at 02:09 AM

Pretend that the tire has been removed.

The nipple has been dropped into the rim hole and engaged with the spoke.

Instead of using the spoke tool, use a screw driver inserted into the rim hole to tighten the nipple onto the spoke (righty tightly, lefty loosely). Clockwise with the screw driver makes the spoke tension higher. This will pull the rim in the direction that the spoke takes as it goes toward the hub. You should alternately tighten and loosen neighboring spokes using small adjustments (1/4 turn). By alternating, you maintain the same average spoke tension on that section of the rim and prevent pulling it out of round (ideally, all spoke tensions are equal, but after hitting a pothole, you have to make adjustments).

I'm not suggesting you actually take off the tire or use a screw driver to true the wheel, but to use this thinking to remember which way to turn the nipple.

Brendan Rigby

Aug 11, 2013 at 02:38 PM

thanks, dstokes. that information was annoyingly hard to locate online.

the one redeeming feature of my evil wonka wheels' internal nipples: you have to use a special screwdriver (6mm hex wrench on the end of a stick), so the turning of the nipples is actually intuitive! righty tighty.

twoyacks

Aug 11, 2013 at 04:59 PM

Brendan Rigby said

the one redeeming feature of my evil wonka wheels' internal nipples: you have to use a special screwdriver (6mm hex wrench on the end of a stick), so the turning of the nipples is actually intuitive! righty tighty

there is nothing redeeming about those wheels....NOTHING !
redeeming |riˈdēmiNG|adjective1 compensating for someone's or something's faults; compensatory: tuneless dirges withfew redeeming features. a quite dreadful man, without a single redeeming quality.2 able to save people from sin, error, or evil: the transforming power of God's redeeming grace.

Jeffrey White

Aug 11, 2013 at 05:38 PM

ian ellis said:

I have a damaged jacket that I would like to get repaired. I know JP knows a good seamstress up near Central Park, but I am sure I read here of a reference for someone in Brooklyn ?

Jules has someone good he uses extensively.

ian ellis

Aug 12, 2013 at 01:28 AM

That might be exactly what I am looking for. I have a damaged Assos Fugujack I would like resuscitated.

Jules

Aug 12, 2013 at 03:02 AM

Email me offline; I'll dig out the contact info

Jules

Aug 15, 2013 at 11:36 PM

Well this is interesting...

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/08/news/cervelo-founder-calls-for-industry-wide-fork-steerer-test_299307

Basically Cervelo is saying that damage during shipping might have been responsible for a number of steerer failures...