RobertMullen said:

It takes crazy numbers to win any of these races. Just curious what makes Sep's win more suspicious than say Wout's? 

Nothing. Sep published his numbers and I pointed out the old saw about 6.4 being the max clean number for that kind of (20 minute) time that various experts have gravitated towards.

RobertMullen said:

It takes crazy numbers to win any of these races. Just curious what makes Sep's win more suspicious than say Wout's? 

TLDR: Nothing.

Way too long: 
Simply, Sepp posts his power/hr/weight stats, so then we can go omg wow.

I suppose we can go into a rabbit hole of speculation (Wout has been winning world champion races since he was a junior, Sepp has a ton of US wins road and MTB, but arguably nothing world class until last year's Vuelta stage win)

Even if totally clean, this is one of many reasons why doping sucks, it makes us doubtful of extraordinary performances. What if simply Sepp has been training mega hard, resting well, staying pro with diet, felt good that day, inspired by Roglic and at some point on those crazy climbs riding with his late buddy Ben Sonntag. "Let's go, Ben, let's win this thing"

RobertMullen said:

It takes crazy numbers to win any of these races. Just curious what makes Sep's win more suspicious than say Wout's? 

What Jules and Eloy wrote.

For me, the stupid article about him getting a fit that raised suspicion and started this thread.  I can't believe he never had a fit before this winter.  And considering the article didn't detail the changes other than his saddle went up, nor a discussion of what the fitter did, nor had a discussion of how it impacted his power, I didn't understand why VeloNews ran it, or why we should believe it.

There have been several similar articles that have come out of VeloNews in the past year.  Last year, they had one suggesting better nutrition and training explained how youngsters Van Der Poel, Van Aert, Evenepoel rose to the top so quickly.  As if those factors didn't impact people older than them.

Agree with JP, historically, great performances explained away as simple bits raise big red flags, because we've been lied before.

Lim explained that Landis won the tour because of more access to water, for example. The take that Sepp is THAT MUCH faster because of a bike fit is ridiculous. 

Somewhat related:

Gotcha! I wasn't trying to be facetious- genuinely asking. 

Le sigh

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-ineos-pull-riders-from-italian-championships-as-leonardo-basso-tests-positive-for-covid-19/

Not sure if this is more for the COVID thread, but there does seem to be an uptick in (a different type) positive tests in the pro peloton. Larry Warbasse just tested positive while being asymptomatic as well. 

Myles said:

Le sigh

My absolute favorite Myles comment along with Jeff W's, "Good job guys."

I would subscribe to a podcast by these two.

mugwump said:

RobertMullen said:

It takes crazy numbers to win any of these races. Just curious what makes Sep's win more suspicious than say Wout's? 

What Jules and Eloy wrote.

For me, the stupid article about him getting a fit that raised suspicion and started this thread.  I can't believe he never had a fit before this winter.  And considering the article didn't detail the changes other than his saddle went up, nor a discussion of what the fitter did, nor had a discussion of how it impacted his power, I didn't understand why VeloNews ran it, or why we should believe it.

There have been several similar articles that have come out of VeloNews in the past year.  Last year, they had one suggesting better nutrition and training explained how youngsters Van Der Poel, Van Aert, Evenepoel rose to the top so quickly.  As if those factors didn't impact people older than them.

I also read some stupid article last year about Fuglsang
 eating more carbs and that’s made it click for him

on another note , I listening to Bradley Wiggins Eurosport podcast well at least the first 10 mins 
wow , he was literally recalling imaginary conversations with”G” and Froome 
complete nonsense 
who is his audience now

I do like what Emma Pooley writes about her everesting challenge, and life in general. 

Nathaniel Miller said:

I do like what Emma Pooley writes about her everesting challenge, and life in general. 

https://cyclingtips.com/2020/08/an-exercise-in-pointlessness-emma-pooley-on-her-world-record-everesting/

Broke the record, off the couch. Fucking hell.

Jules said:

Nathaniel Miller said:

I do like what Emma Pooley writes about her everesting challenge, and life in general. 

https://cyclingtips.com/2020/08/an-exercise-in-pointlessness-emma-pooley-on-her-world-record-everesting/

Broke the record, off the couch. Fucking hell.

Where did you get the couch part? I mean, it is Emma Pooley. 

In any case, the article is extraordinary. I absolutely love pro athletes that try to understand what drives their pursuits. 

I think Jules meant "off the couch" meaning she isn't in her world champ racing shape.

It was a fabulous read, humble and self effacing which speaks volumes about her character and frankly something I relate to culturally. The DIY punk ethos of the effort is also something I really loved, felt like I was reading an old Cometbus zine.

David Yang said:

I think Jules meant "off the couch" meaning she isn't in her world champ racing shape.

It was a fabulous read, humble and self effacing which speaks volumes about her character and frankly something I relate to culturally. The DIY punk ethos of the effort is also something I really loved, felt like I was reading an old Cometbus zine.

Yeah, obv one man's "off the couch" is not 1/10 of Emma Pooley's - but still, no longer living the pro life, or doing 7 hour rides - that is just a monster, monster ride.

Just add fantastic writer to her incredibly long and genuinely incredible list of talents/achievements

I've been puzzled by Ineos pulling out Lightweight wheels for climbing stages.

So I listened to and read pieces where the head of their "technology partner," Swiss Side, goes on at length about how rotational weight savings doesn't make a real difference.  

I can't figure out the answer.  So I wrote the below article.  And tweeted it at Swiss Side to see if I could get a response.

http://jralong.com/2020/08/28/the-inscrutability-of-pro-equipment-choices/

It's a good one JP. You should tweet it at Hambini.

Maybe it’s more about psychology than physics. 

The marginal benefit totally doesn't seem worth pissing off Shimano/Pro. 

Good news? I hope my antibodies don't check my license status before giving me the "elite" response... 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/well/move/exercise-may-boost-your-vaccine-response.html? 

People may remember the KCC rallying war cry of FBF “Gymkata!”

https://nypost.com/2020/06/07/kurt-thomas-first-us-man-to-win-world-gym-title-dead-at-64/?

He just keeps warming the cockles-of my heart
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bradley-wiggins-suggests-tour-de-france-riders-retire-if-they-cant-handle-risks/

RobertMullen said:

The marginal benefit totally doesn't seem worth pissing off Shimano/Pro. 

My guess is that the deal is partially through Pinarello and that Ineos can walk away from Shimano whenever. $47 million budget probably helps.  Back in the Sky days, Wiggins and a few other riders got to ride Speedplay pedals and there were plenty of instances where they were riding non-shimano wheels.  From always has his Osymetric chainrings and there are other instances.    

Lighter (shallower) wheels accelerate faster.

eloy said:

Lighter (shallower) wheels accelerate faster.

But the advantage is limited to the acceleration, at least according to Swiss Side.  

Easier to mount a motor?

A good example would be the last climb on yesterday's stage, the acceleration moment was the single most important part of the whole race. Julian Allanphipe attack, Hirschi follow, and Yates bridging up.

It makes some sense they would prioritize equipment for that moment.

Is not like we are comparing box 32 spoke rims to aero wheels, we are comparing 40mm wheels to 47mm wheels, either one is gonna get them top tour pros to the point that one attacks in a combination of tempo/threshold efforts. But once at that point, they'll want the gear that will help the attack.

Want to mention, JP, that I enjoyed your article very much, ultimately the stories around what gear riders choose, what kind of choice they can actually make, and what difference does it make on the day, are always kinda fascinating. 

Whether is Lemond vs. Fignon, or Wout on rim brakes, or even the gabba like jackets everyone is wearing on the tour today, it is always fun to explore, speculate, and find reports from those that were there.