Kissena Forum Archive

Oct 09, 2023 at 11:12 PM

Tom Pidcock wraps up season with XCO win at Mont-Sainte-Anne MTB World Cup

The last round of the XCO World Cup in Canada was crazy fun to watch
super wet , rock descents and running up the hills
Puck Pieters wrapped up overall titles in short track and XC in her first season.
now she’s off the start her cross season

Image: https://escapecollective.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/PA_MontSainteAnneWC2023_XCOWE-9.jpg

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/this-is-probably-my-last-race-zdenek-stybar-nears-exit-at-tour-of-guangxi/

Oct 13, 2023 at 12:14 PM

Easy to forget how good this guy was on a cross bike .

Oct 13, 2023 at 06:26 PM

Mark Taylor said:

Easy to forget how good this guy was on a cross bike .

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/this-is-probably-my-last-race-zdenek-stybar-nears-exit-at-tour-of-guangxi/

I was just reading that.
#longlivetheking

Oct 20, 2023 at 06:48 PM

This can't be good for the bike world

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/news/wiggle-crc-administration-signa-sports-united

Wiggle, Chain Reaction, DhB, Nukeproof, Vitus, many other names are owned by WiggleCRC. Possibly the worlds largest online retailer. And it looks like the company is about to fold.

Oct 21, 2023 at 03:34 PM

The cycling industry always seems on the precipice of destroying itself.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ineos-grenadiers-sign-promising-young-rider-aj-august/

Oct 25, 2023 at 03:48 PM

Ineos is now the official New York Team

eloy

Oct 25, 2023 at 03:56 PM

Saw his IG post. That is so awesome, hope we still see him race cyclocross, as he has a real shot at a world championship (even if junior's or U23)

Oct 25, 2023 at 03:56 PM

Is it just me or has the number of Americans in the WT grown significantly over the past 3 years? It seems like just about every team has 1-2 guys.

Oct 25, 2023 at 08:09 PM

GregHoge said:

Is it just me or has the number of Americans in the WT grown significantly over the past 3 years? It seems like just about every team has 1-2 guys.

It might be you.

There are currently 12 Americans on WorldTour teams. That doesn't seem like much more than usual.

I have been trying to figure out a way to use ProCyclingStats to see how many there were in recent years. Haven't been able to. But here's the link

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rankings.php?nation=us&age=&zage=&page=smallerorequal&team=&offset=0&teamlevel=1&filter=Filter

u
Australia has 27 riders on the WorldTour, which is impressive as their population is probably about 1/10th of the US.

Oct 25, 2023 at 11:52 PM

I think you're right - it's actually on well below the lower end of the normal 17-22 range:

https://www.procyclingstats.com/statistics.php?season=2021&level=1&sekse=1&filter=Filter&p=nations

Oct 26, 2023 at 12:27 AM

23 in the WorldTour in 2014.

Oct 26, 2023 at 10:07 AM

I do however feel like this generation are good🤣🤣

Oct 27, 2023 at 12:43 PM

So Jumbo-Visma had a team meeting after the Angliru, and they asked the domestiques first what the team should do. That's a surprise. A pretty cool one.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/jumbo-visma-should-have-stayed-together-on-angliru-says-zeeman/

Matt Budofsky

Oct 27, 2023 at 12:52 PM

Not entirely surprised with what we saw on that road that Primoz was the one who had a hard time swallowing the "Sepp should win the Vuelta" pill

Matt Budofsky

Oct 27, 2023 at 12:53 PM

also, wiggle officially went into administration. Hoping they can reorganize and keep the doors open for a variety of reasons

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggle-enters-administration/

Nov 01, 2023 at 01:57 PM

A former Signa employee tries to explain what happened, from the outside...

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/postmortem-signa-sports-united-jacob-dudek-xau9f%3F/

"You had a majority shareholder in SSU that needed to raise capital and shore up much larger scale issues in his ~$25B-30B real estate empire, and a capital injection obligation from said shareholder to an illiquid publicly traded business that was reeling from the bullwhip effect in industry that is extremely competitive even in normal market conditions. That summary right there is pretty red-flaggish isn’t it?"

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-training/a-massive-change-how-a-carbohydrate-revolution-is-speeding-up-pro-cycling/

Nov 01, 2023 at 01:58 PM

WAnt to know why pros are riding faster? It's more carbohydrates! (according to the article below)

Funny thing it, the author can't explain it. He just spoke to people who said that's what it is. So it must be true.

Nov 01, 2023 at 02:40 PM

I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong, but have you ever eaten 100g of carbs on a ride?

Anecdotally, whenever I get in the 90-100gish range I can ride harder for longer than a lesser fueled ride in the 40-60g. It's crazy. If you haven't I suggest giving it a shot if for nothing else than to see what all the fuss is about.

Nov 01, 2023 at 02:53 PM

mugwump said:

WAnt to know why pros are riding faster? It's more carbohydrates! (according to the article below)

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-training/a-massive-change-how-a-carbohydrate-revolution-is-speeding-up-pro-cycling/

Funny thing it, the author can't explain it. He just spoke to people who said that's what it is. So it must be true.

My grumbled thoughts exactly.

I have read a bit about how the glucose uptake mechanism in the gut gets maxed out (that's why eating too many apples give you the shits - you can't absorb more) and that fructose uses a different uptake pathway - so people are mixing the two in order to increase overall calorie uptake.

Still no insight into how more calories turns into 7 w/kg being the "new normal" though, or how this is "revolutionary."

As far back as Mark Allen people have been saying that endurance sport is basically a competition to see whose gut can absorb the most calories per hour.

LennartZandbergen

Nov 01, 2023 at 03:00 PM

GregHoge said:

I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong, but have you ever eaten 100g of carbs on a ride?

Anecdotally, whenever I get in the 90-100gish range I can ride harder for longer than a lesser fueled ride in the 40-60g. It's crazy. If you haven't I suggest giving it a shot if for nothing else than to see what all the fuss is about.

Yeah this is very true for me as well. Not only the riding itself is better, I also recover much quicker. And then I'm not even combining it with perfect supercompensation, resting and overall food intake.

Nov 01, 2023 at 03:51 PM

@GregHoge

It's a question of how much you can ingest in an hour to get 100-120g carbohydrate and not have issues. That's four Maurten gels, 400 calories. And gels can be hard on stomachs, especially when dydrated. You'd need to drink a bottle of Maurten's 320 mix (320 calories) and a gel to get to the 100g minimum.

A SIS Hydro drink is 37g of carbs, a clif bar is 41g. That's over 400 calories to get 78g of carbs. I can do that, but it's still not enough.

And as Jules pointed out, how does that get a body to 7 w/kg, even in training?

What is is about the stuff the pros are eating that makes it possible to assimilate all those calories? What are the mechanisms, the ingredients, which either trick the body or ease the body to take on the nutrition while their heart rates are at threshold and their bodies are seemingly directing most of its efforts to propelling the bike?

Nov 01, 2023 at 04:39 PM

I'll preface this with: I think there's some high end medical stuff going on in the dominate teams and riders that puts them on a level above everyone else. What exactly that is, I have no clue. Could be micro-dosing EPO, gene-editing, fecal transplants, or some other crazy stuff. That said, dialing and training nutrition is something that can give a rider an edge, but, since it's theoretically accessible to everyone, the edge wouldn't last long.

Typically, when you're trying to get to those high carb values (90+g/hr), then it's a pure maltodextrin/fructose mix. There isn't much room, time, or need for fats and proteins at intense efforts. SIS Hydro and Clif bars good examples of a mix that is not targeted at maxing carbs with minimal bulk. Try a pack of Beta Fuel and a Maurten or beta fuel gel. That hits 100-120g in 1 bottle and a gel. If you want something cheap and immediately available, table sugar with some salt works, but

Idk about the pros, but training your gut to be able to take high carbs is also a thing. It's pretty rare to be able to go right to being able to handle 100+ carbs/hr without some GI issues. I would assume pro riders are making nutrition training part of their regular routine.

Again, I don't think nutrition is what is giving all this extra speed, but it's definitely something.

Nov 01, 2023 at 08:26 PM

@GregHoge thanks. I can see some of that.

The insights into 'how', as written in the article, are basically useless. For example, I would think if there's "science" behind it, there would be more precise quantities and recommendations. Like if you're riding at a rate where you use 700kj of energy an hour for an expected five-hour race, you should take in Xkcal of fuel per hour, or even a rider of 70kg riding at 700kj an hour should take in Ykcal and a 85kg rider should take in 20% more or something to reflect that the bigger rider is burning more calories.

Such advice, knowing that one should replace Z% of what was burned to keep up maximal effort would be really amazing to know. As well as if such fueling strategies makes sense at lower intensities or shorter efforts.

And knowing what nutrients are making this magic happen, or if it's just getting used to drinking syrup, would tell us something valuable.

Further, the advice about skipping foods that cause water retention is a bit odd because most of these drinks have a ton of salt, which typically leads to water retention. Racing that hard means sweating a ton, so even if there's a bloated feeling, it might be good for producing watts over time because dehydration is, I think it has been documented to be, a real problem.

Matt Budofsky

Nov 01, 2023 at 08:56 PM

Seconding @GregHoge point about training your gut. Anecdotally, I was tinkering with various high carb drink mixes over the summer and my stomach was a disaster after the first few rides. After a few rides though as I got more used to the quantity of carbs and the syrupiness of the drinks, my stomach wasn't bothered by it much.

I don't know what the pros are on, if anything, beyond nutrition, but I could see team nutritionists having a pretty efficient and systematic method for ramping up the rider's carb intake in a way to minimize GI issues and adapt to high carb loads

eloy

Nov 02, 2023 at 01:13 AM

There are totally different topics here, obvs.

1. Is nutrition the reason the peloton is way faster? Maybe to a point, but this is a bullshit explanation. Worth note, btw, that nutrition was also cited for Armstrong and Landis successes, for example.

2. Can better nutrition and increased carb intake help us amateurs perform better? Yes 100% -- the pros claim that 100gr of carbs per hour during races or workouts is the key. You better be doing your intervals and already getting some pretty sweet results if you are thinking mo' carbs are gonna help.

A few things noted by some above:

Humans normally can't consume that much, so we need to train our bodies to deal with those many carbs.
As amateurs, btw, we don't actually have to get to 100grams -- we can do 70~80~90gr and still see an improvement (flow products are literally called 60/90, Styrkr is called Mix90)
It is gonna be very very hard to use normal/traditional bike nutrition (gu, cliff, nuum, power bars) to get to those numbers. You need to move to more modern stuff like Flow, Styrkr, Maureen, etc...

It is a new world out there, & your mileage will vary.

Nov 02, 2023 at 07:39 AM

I’ve been using the SIS beta fuel most of the year which I’ve had no stomach issue with ,not that it’s benefited my performance 😩
but do think it’s helped me feel “ topped up”
non long rides

Nov 02, 2023 at 02:12 PM

I think this is the podcast that covered the uptake pathways.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/science-of-getting-faster-podcast-presented-by/id1552970725?i=1000508384735

Nov 02, 2023 at 04:24 PM

@mugwump

The body of research isn't really large enough to come up with a formula like what you're looking for. And honestly, I don't think it will ever get there since, I would imagine, the recommendation for a pro who has trained their gut would be different than someone just clipping in for the first time. The best guidance is starting on the conservative end of what you know you can handle and increasing carbs until your stomach can't tolerate anymore during hard efforts.