"Putting my money where my mouth is."

So in the past, for local park races, I've often advised riders to try different tactics, trying things that put themselves in danger of getting dropped for the greater good of testing yourself, learning about yourself, and being that much better when your A-priority races come around.

Well, my own coach has advised me similarly for this coming weekend's PP race. Specifically, he said, "inflict pain, not holding back work, I would rather you blow a wad and get dropped, not finish then to ride and just finish."

So, why do you care? Well, I want to give you all a heads-up as to how I'm going to be racing. But for YOU, this presents a nice opportunity. If you follow the advice that was recently given by Tim of Training Peaks, to focus on staying in the front, then you will be in good position to, for example counterattack my moves. So if I'm off the front with a few other riders and the field is engaged in a long/hard chase (hopefully, right?), then if you are sitting in the top-10 then as the field draws closer, you will be in perfect position to counter-attack, launching your own move, or reacting to another team's move. If the field is already tired from chasing my group down, then your group has a higher chance of success.

Now, this does not mean I'm going to be ITT'ing of the front at every opportunity on Saturday? No way. That doesn't do me much good either. I will back off and either let others bridge, or get reabsorbed by the field to try again later.

My overall point here, is that I believe my individual goals here can have a positive impact on helping one of you place. But if you are 30 riders back when I'm off the front trying to do my thing, then you are literally in no position to take advantage of my work to your benefit.

ALSO; after the race, I'd like to get together to have a little debriefing session. I've got a birthday party to get to, so I won't able to "coffee shop" it with you, but if we all have a little face-to-face chat about the race while it's still fresh in our minds, it could be a nice learning opportunity too.

I'm in.

We've got the following registered thus far: eloy, marc, Condon, Grehan, Vlad, and Dan Strika.  Anyone else joining?

Marc, you want to set a high tempo into the KoM's and Sprints?  Or attack after them so we can follow the counters?

I'm a day of...Yack's is tired   If I show I would love to set tempo on the climb for the Sprint laps....remember the sprint is now after the hill making it waaaay harder than the KOM.  If anyone wants a shot at that podium.  The KOM's are going to be dangerous...don't sleep on those laps as they can turn into the race winning break.  Last year, the sprint laps had a small gaggle of dudes go hard on the hill and limp into the sprint = no threat to the finale.....but the KOM's were different = guys who can get up the road and stay there.  Be vigilante as I'm sure there are teams who are going to use the KOM as a break launch attempt. 

JP, I'm not interested in setting high tempo...

I'm going to be attacking and countering HARD. Early, often, whenever. It would be nice if I was in position at some point to try and go for some sprint points, but my priority is to attack, recover, attack, recover, attack, recover. The only time I actually want to be setting high tempo, is if I happen to get lucky and get in an actual break that stays away.

Marc Bertucco said:

JP, I'm not interested in setting high tempo...

I'm going to be attacking and countering HARD. Early, often, whenever. It would be nice if I was in position at some point to try and go for some sprint points, but my priority is to attack, recover, attack, recover, attack, recover. The only time I actually want to be setting high tempo, is if I happen to get lucky and get in an actual break that stays away.

Gotta say, Marc, for all your mentoring, when faced with a proposition that could maybe help both the team and your training goal, you replied that you'll be racing like a monkey. Cheers to that.

eloy said:

Marc Bertucco said:

JP, I'm not interested in setting high tempo...

I'm going to be attacking and countering HARD. Early, often, whenever. It would be nice if I was in position at some point to try and go for some sprint points, but my priority is to attack, recover, attack, recover, attack, recover. The only time I actually want to be setting high tempo, is if I happen to get lucky and get in an actual break that stays away.

Gotta say, Marc, for all your mentoring, when faced with a proposition that could maybe help both the team and your training goal, you replied that you'll be racing like a monkey. Cheers to that.

Eloy, if you want to actually talk about what's actually going to help the team, instead of claiming I'm going to race like a monkey we can do that.

JP suggestion that I ride high tempo at the front of the race is one that is not good for me or the team. And he's ridden with me enough that he should know better. I don't know why he even suggested it.

There are a few guys, diesels on the team, that can legitimately put the hurt on riders that way. In fact, JP is one of those guys. And if we had a Keith and a Jeff Owens and maybe one more joining him, those guys riding high tempo at the front all day long could fry some legs back in the field. But just one of those guys? Just one of me? Nope, not going to happen. Ever. I never have been, nor never will be that kind of motor. Specifically...

If I ride tempo or even threshold at the front, with my numbers, (FTP 265) yeah, the race won't exactly drag or have any major lulls, but those sitting on behind me will certainly not be working very hard to stay on my wheel. And ultimately, I'll be doing nothing other than tiring myself out and no one else.

Conversely if I attack, get a good gap, and get either a group to chase or the field to chase, they will have to go harder than if they are just sitting on my wheel going tempo. As the field closes in on me, they will necessarily have to be going going much harder than "tempo sitting on Marc's wheel" pace.

(Do the math, I attack at 500-800 watts, get a gap, settle down to high threshold, then the field absolutely has to burn more kj closing that gap, then if they were sitting on my wheel while I'm "crushing it" steady at 265 watts) 

Back to the race. I'm off the front, the field or a small group containing one of my teammates gets a free-ride to me, and voila, that sets up a nice counter-attack situation for you or JP or Yacks or whomever wants to go. The field having just chased me down will already be somewhat weary and less likely/able to chase down the counter from my "monkey attack."

The only problem with my approach is if the field continues to let me hang out to dry. This sometimes happens, but enough people still can't tell the difference between me and JP that I usually get chased down too. But if I dangling out there repeatedly, then I'll shift tactics a bit and look for moves to bridge up to. Or my monkey self will holler at you to "get on my wheel" and I'll drag you to where you should be in the race.

So, specifically, lets take an example that I can guarantee will present itself during Saturdays race (because it always does for those willing to make the leap).

Coming past the temple on the downside of the course, there is often a slowing after the speed of the descent and the narrowing of the left handed chute sweeper. Say I attack like a monkey there and get a gap. The field lets me sit out there for a few seconds or even a minute, and then they realize that I'm not coming back on my own. So they pick up the pace, just around the time the course starts to drag upwards at around 1-2% false flat climb. I stay on the gas, the field gets strung out chasing me, I'm pulled back around the zoo or at the base of the climb and you or JP or Patrick sitting say about 5th or 6th wheel have a perfect opportunity to accelerate out of the "King's Seat" and drive it hard up the hill for your own opportunity.

I dial it back, sag climb a bit and recover, and get back in position to react to whatever becomes of your counter-attack on the climb.

If you still think that's racing like a monkey, then me and my bananas will see you on Saturday and you can do your thing, and I'll do my thing and that's that.

Marc, what you just proposed is smart, fun, and would help the team, while achieving your training goal.

There is some distance between this last post and the earlier "I'm going to be attacking and countering HARD. Early, often, whenever" but quite possibly I misinterpreted.

cheers, looking forward to bananas!

eloy said:

Marc, what you just proposed is smart, fun, and would help the team, while achieving your training goal.

There is some distance between this last post and the earlier "I'm going to be attacking and countering HARD. Early, often, whenever" but quite possibly I misinterpreted.

cheers, looking forward to bananas!

Me too, lets have some fun out there!

Marc Bertucco said:

eloy said:

Marc Bertucco said:

JP, I'm not interested in setting high tempo...

JP suggestion that I ride high tempo at the front of the race is one that is not good for me or the team. And he's ridden with me enough that he should know better. I don't know why he even suggested it.

There are plenty of good reasons to suggest it.

I'll go into them.  

First, I did not suggest rolling hard for a lap.  What I meant is to do a super hard 1-2 minute effort at the front if it's all together 2-3 minutes out from the line.  Like a minute to 1.5 minutes from the old finish line to a little past the right-hand curve on the hill, or the same time from the point the hill kicks up to the end of the chute by the triangle.

This has many values.  

It is a really hard above-threshold effort,so you get your wish to burn matches and consume kilojoules with abandon.  Quoting your coach, "inflict pain, not holding back work, I would rather you blow a wad and get dropped, not finish then to ride and just finish."   (I don't read anything about attacking vs. pace setting vs. chasing in it, but I don't have the whole text. To me, he seems to be telling you to be the energizer bunny, not prioritizing some efforts over others.) 

It blunts the speed of the explosive types. I can't speak for others, but I know that I'm a better sprinter the higher the starting speed of the sprint is.

It makes the effort of getting away much harder for others.  There will be fewer attacks.

It gives us a tactical advantage. If we know you're doing this, then we can plan accordingly and be better positioned to sprint or attack after the sprint, because the higher the speed going into a sprint the more important position is.  

looking at your scenario...Having raced the old guys race a few times, if you get pulled back at the base of the hill, it's probably too far for us to counter-attack if it's a KoM sprint, and the teams might not be well-enough organized to keep driving after catching you.

From my saddle, you're discussing attacking hard.  The only real difference I can perceive between what you're suggesting and what I'm suggesting is that your suggestion might entail a harder first 15-30 seconds.  After all, the only way you're going to be able to get away is if you can ride a beyond threshold effort for a few minutes and then settle down into a threshold effort--and you seem to be hoping you'll get caught.  

mugwump said:

Marc, you want to set a high tempo into the KoM's and Sprints? 

Last time I checked tempo is the zone below threshold, not, "a super hard 1-2 minute effort at the front."

Your explanation that follows is not without it's merits, and is one way to approach the race; but it's another conversation. One that might include the rest of the team racing on Saturday.

J.P.	Partland	New York	NY	Kissena Cycling Club	4/16/15
Marc	Bertucco	New York	NY	Kissena Cycling Club	4/15/15
Eloy	Anzola	Brooklyn	NY	Kissena Cycling Club	4/11/15
Patrick	Grehan	Rockville Centre	NY	Kissena Cycling Club	4/14/15
Jeff	Condon	Brooklyn	NY	Kissena Cycling Club	4/15/15
Vlad	Preoteasa	Brooklyn	NY	Kissena Cycling Club	4/15/15
Phillip	Maronilla	Astoria	NY	Kissena Cycling Club	4/16/15
Dusan	Strika	Parlin	NJ	Kissena Cycling Team	4/15/15

Fellas, cat 5 racer here who hasn't had a chance to pickup my new jersey with this years sponsors. all kidding aside, don't want to offend new sponsors, but how bad would it be to where last years jersey for one race. It's not like every sponsor changed or anything . . . Oh wait. 

I've put the bike rack on the car & wiped my bike down = looks good for me showing up.  Disclaimer*** I am not fully recovered from the skin shedding I did last Sat. = fo real !  If I line up I'm going to ease into this hot mess and see what happens
yacks

Joshua Edwards said:

Fellas, cat 5 racer here who hasn't had a chance to pickup my new jersey with this years sponsors. all kidding aside, don't want to offend new sponsors, but how bad would it be to where last years jersey for one race. It's not like every sponsor changed or anything . . . Oh wait. 

You'll be fine.

Wait...the kit changed???

twoyacks said:

Wait...the kit changed???

Just the sponsors.

woke up with a bad back  because #old...hope all enjoyed

Flatted 1/2 lap into the race. I hit something at the top of the descent and had a big blow out. Worst part was that I lost my Garmin. Oh well. 

Gadzooks !!!

I was behind that crash at the base of the hill. I slowed down, got gapped, and couldn't get back on. Everyone else was sprinting around me to get back on. Fun times.

twoyacks said:

Gadzooks !!!

Hello dum dum

Oh SNAP!!!  Crash going up the hill?  What happened?  what lap? Inquiring minds want to know

  

I think its lap 4 or 5. KOM lap. I don't know what happened exactly. Just the characteristic sound of things scraping, and people yelling. I guess it must've been bad since an ambulance was called. I saw an unattached rider, Stanley, and a south shore cyclist on the ground.

No results to speak of in PP in the 40+ race, JP and/or Vladi might have been our best placed. I actually thought we raced okay. Always a KCC at or near the front, getting in some moves, chasing some things down, some splits even.

Others on the team feel differently though. I guess the funny thing about race reports is that they ultimately end up being snapshots, stills, of the race experienced by the person "taking the picture." And to be honest, in this case, I don't know who's right. Probably both.

Well, for giggles, and in hopes of gleaning something useful from the race power data, I got my computer to GPS auto-interval the race. I was surprised at how close the GPS marker was from lap to lap. Basically 3.38 or 3.39 miles every lap. Here are the lap times.

8:30
8:14
8:00
8:00
7:59
8:02
8:14
8:02
7:59
8:03
8:18
8:04

Changing table critic says...

I woke up this morning eager to race but then I discovered three hungry kids in my home and someone stole my 2013 fitness...

Random race notes:

• Nearly missed the start of the race. Thought it was 6:30 start, but this series started at 6:17.
  
• This year, this series, apparently not farmed out to Charlie? Nowhere in sight, instead there he was, Greg Avon running the show.
• Still, KCC was there in force manning registration, KOMs, etc. I guess, KCC basically runs the show if there is a race in PP no matter who is on the race permit. Go volunteers.
  
• Need more marshals? A couple of very, scary close calls with families and kids on bikes.
• Crashes on hills. First one, as mentioned on the uphill. Second one on the descent. Both were scary, I managed to avoid both, but on the descending crash, someone ran right into my rear end and well, I was happy to get away without laying it down.
• No big surprise here, but comparing both the windy PP race a few weeks ago and today's race? Today's race was faster and easier (to finish; maybe harder to place though)
  
• Lots of bunching up. I know this is wrong, but when a dude wearing a USPS "pro" jersey finishes...sigh.
  

results bra
http://prtiming.com/racyclingseries1-2015results/#/results::14293982775720