Jan 29, 2014 at 06:00 PM
Ride Brooklyn only gave me a 5% discount....with tax and delivery it came out to be more expensive than if I ordered it online. Canceling my order would not be a problem as I'm at least a month away from delivery.
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Jan 29, 2014 at 06:10 PM
I could be convinced.
Jan 29, 2014 at 07:01 PM
For those sitting on the fence watching the sands of time go by, today is your lucky day. The ACME bike fitting promotion (10% discount) has been extended through the month of February.
Just schedule the fit with their online reservation system and they will honor the discount on the final payment.
Jan 29, 2014 at 07:16 PM
Nice!
Jan 29, 2014 at 08:11 PM
I would also be interested in P2P or Stages.
Jan 30, 2014 at 02:52 PM
i would be interested in either.
Jan 30, 2014 at 03:42 PM
Powermeter update:
Stages - not taking on sponsorships at this time. I will revisit with them at a later date but this would be a 2015 sponsor.
P2P - They have offered two tiers of promotion for an order:
First tier is reached if we have 5 orders for a power meter. At this level they will include for free a pair of Praxis chain rings (& bolts). They are currently on sale on their site for $99 - formerly $175.
Second tier is reached if we have 10 orders for a power meter. At this level each person would get the free chain rings plus a discount that is TBD. To manage expectations I guess it'll be in the 5 - 10% range. I'd like and will try for more but I'd like to gauge interest if the discount were in my limited range.
As far as expressions of interest:
Ian Ellis
David Stokes (Ian and David have placed orders which count towards our discount level)
Zolan
Joaquin
Yacks
Nelson
Alyoshas
Duncan
based on comments, fence sitters:
Bertucco
Brendan
I feel confident we've reached the first discount tier I question whether we'll reach the 2nd. Feel free to comment here or PM or email me with additional questions or comments. More info on the P2P power meters is here: http://www.power2max.com/northamerica/produkt-kategorie/power-meters-en/
Stages - not taking on sponsorships at this time. I will revisit with them at a later date but this would be a 2015 sponsor.
P2P - They have offered two tiers of promotion for an order:
First tier is reached if we have 5 orders for a power meter. At this level they will include for free a pair of Praxis chain rings (& bolts). They are currently on sale on their site for $99 - formerly $175.
Second tier is reached if we have 10 orders for a power meter. At this level each person would get the free chain rings plus a discount that is TBD. To manage expectations I guess it'll be in the 5 - 10% range. I'd like and will try for more but I'd like to gauge interest if the discount were in my limited range.
As far as expressions of interest:
Ian Ellis
David Stokes (Ian and David have placed orders which count towards our discount level)
Zolan
Joaquin
Yacks
Nelson
Alyoshas
Duncan
based on comments, fence sitters:
Bertucco
Brendan
I feel confident we've reached the first discount tier I question whether we'll reach the 2nd. Feel free to comment here or PM or email me with additional questions or comments. More info on the P2P power meters is here: http://www.power2max.com/northamerica/produkt-kategorie/power-meters-en/
Jan 30, 2014 at 08:38 PM
I am sorry that my decision will affect other people, but at a 10% discount I don't think I can go with power2max. Although the power meter is priced lower than other crank-based systems at $900, that price includes paying for new cranks that I wouldn't have to buy with other meters. Those cranks would also require an adapter to fit my BB30 frame. $1249 for cranks that fit my BB30 frame. Come cyclocross season I would be without power because the BCD of compact cyclocross chainrings would not match the meter.
I can get a Powertap for less and build it into whatever wheel I want, cyclocross during the winter and road during the summer. It could become an annual ritual: switching over the Powertap.
My mind is open but my wallet is closed for now. Convince me! I might be missing something.
Jan 31, 2014 at 01:47 AM
Wait...this power meter doesn't come with cranks or chainrings? I've been to the site, but still am not clear.Brendan Rigby said:I am sorry that my decision will affect other people, but at a 10% discount I don't think I can go with power2max. Although the power meter is priced lower than other crank-based systems at $900, that price includes paying for new cranks that I wouldn't have to buy with other meters. Those cranks would also require an adapter to fit my BB30 frame. $1249 for cranks that fit my BB30 frame. Come cyclocross season I would be without power because the BCD of compact cyclocross chainrings would not match the meter.I can get a Powertap for less and build it into whatever wheel I want, cyclocross during the winter and road during the summer. It could become an annual ritual: switching over the Powertap.My mind is open but my wallet is closed for now. Convince me! I might be missing something.
I have a 2013 CAAD 10...is that BB30...do I need cranks? $1249 for me too?
Jan 31, 2014 at 01:57 AM
Marc. It doesn't matter one whit what kind of frame you have. Are you kidding?
The powermeter is part of the spider on the cranks. If you have a compatible set of cranks, then you simply swap out the spider.
Compatible: cannondale hollowtech and certain models from SRAM, FSA, Specialized
Not compatible: Shimano, Campy
If you have questions about compatibility, spend more time on the site or send email to their support
PS: anyone who is sensitive to seeing 4 digits in their checkbook needs to look at the powercal, or a heart rate monitor.
Jan 31, 2014 at 02:15 AM
*opens his wallet, weeps softly, and pets his powercal*
Jan 31, 2014 at 02:28 AM
Stages = $700 for a RIval crank arm...which is what I ordered....am on the fence about cxl'ing that order for a power2max.
Jan 31, 2014 at 02:52 AM
Marc, I e-mailed them about my CAAD10. They have several options for it, but the cheapest option forces you to use an adapter and sacrifice some stiffness:
For a CAAD10 I'd recommend a 30mm axle model like the Rotor 3DF or 3D+. You can also run the FSA Gossamer with the BB30 adapter bottom bracket, though it's technically not quite as good (stiffness wise).BestNicolas
Jan 31, 2014 at 03:06 AM
Cannondale hollowtech cranks are also BB30 (which is what I got, but which is not cheapest but was recommended by JP)
And certain members of our club are perfectly happy with their GXP adapters in a BB30 bottom bracket.
Stages certainly looks like a viable option based on dcrainmakers incredibly data-rich review.
Jan 31, 2014 at 01:08 PM
BB30 v. GXP.
Aluminum oversize axle (30mm) with bearings further inboard v. 24mm Steel axle and bearings further outboard.
More flexible axle v. less flexible axle.
The debate is over which is stiffer. The answer is...
It doesn't really matter given that the claim is only 10% stiffer. Plus Shimano USA’s vice president, Wayne Stetina, has a different take on things: “The BB30 is an optimized design for an aluminum spindle, and 24mm diameter is the optimized size for a steel spindle. But, after five to 10 years, an aluminum spindle will eventually fail. Neither of the designs are the ultimate.”
Jan 31, 2014 at 01:26 PM
I was just passing on the tech support guy's quote.
What do you power2max people plan to do about getting power on your cross bikes? Do you use compact rings on your road bikes? Perhaps the sense is power isn't as relevant for your regimen of cross training?
I want to get something that will go easily from bike to bike. I figure with Stages I could just get two identical SRAM Rival crank sets, which are cheap, one road standard one cross compact, and be able to swap the power meter with ease. What's everyone's plan?
Jan 31, 2014 at 02:25 PM
@Brendan: I think I said this about 10 times above. Compact spider. Change large chain ring. Move entire assembly to 'cross bike (assuming you have the same BB or a suitable adapter).
As flame bait I'll also say that power on a 'cross bike isn't as critical. The majority of the cardiovascular training will be done on the road bike. When on 'cross bikes we are usually either training skills or racing. About the only thing I use my computer for when riding 'cross is to judge whether my heart is about to explode.
As flame bait I'll also say that power on a 'cross bike isn't as critical. The majority of the cardiovascular training will be done on the road bike. When on 'cross bikes we are usually either training skills or racing. About the only thing I use my computer for when riding 'cross is to judge whether my heart is about to explode.
Jan 31, 2014 at 03:08 PM
Stokes, you know nothing of flaming. Saying "as I said ten times above" is much better flame bait than stating a legitimate opinion about something related to training.
I didn't realize 53T 110BCD chainrings existed. Where can I buy them? That is a game-changer.
Jan 31, 2014 at 03:34 PM
Brendan - like this: http://www.xxcycle.com/stronglight-chainring-time-trial-110-ct2-type-s-tt,,en.php
I am sure RB can probably order one, but I have used xxcycle to buy a bunch of stuff, they are particularly good for the more esoteric French components.
Jan 31, 2014 at 04:02 PM
Brendan - harder to find but you can get 53T 110 BCD chainrings.
http://harriscyclery.net/product/t.a.-specialites-zephyr-110-bcd-outer-chainrings-3476.htm
The more common approach is to do 52/36 which is called a mid-compact. Here is an example of the rings you can get with the P2P deal. http://praxiscycles.com/product/compact-road-sets/
The primary issue is that the max difference between the large and small chainring shouldn't be more than 16 teeth otherwise shifting suffers.
With the P2P deal I will get the 110 BCD with the 52/36 rings and find some Hollowgram cranks which will then allow it to work on both road and cross bikes. BTW - the Hollowgram cranks are aluminum and the lightest cranks on the market (of all types) which should make Yacks happy.
The other benefit in my mind (I haven't done the math) of the midcompact is that I'll eventually get a cassette with a tighter grouping 11-23 for example rather than an 11-26 or 28. It will result in less of a percentage change between gears at the lower end of the gear range (easier gears) allowing me to ride at closer to optimal cadence.
http://harriscyclery.net/product/t.a.-specialites-zephyr-110-bcd-outer-chainrings-3476.htm
The more common approach is to do 52/36 which is called a mid-compact. Here is an example of the rings you can get with the P2P deal. http://praxiscycles.com/product/compact-road-sets/
The primary issue is that the max difference between the large and small chainring shouldn't be more than 16 teeth otherwise shifting suffers.
With the P2P deal I will get the 110 BCD with the 52/36 rings and find some Hollowgram cranks which will then allow it to work on both road and cross bikes. BTW - the Hollowgram cranks are aluminum and the lightest cranks on the market (of all types) which should make Yacks happy.
The other benefit in my mind (I haven't done the math) of the midcompact is that I'll eventually get a cassette with a tighter grouping 11-23 for example rather than an 11-26 or 28. It will result in less of a percentage change between gears at the lower end of the gear range (easier gears) allowing me to ride at closer to optimal cadence.
Jan 31, 2014 at 05:42 PM
For those of you unable to find the power2max website:
You can get standard 130 BCD spider with 53x39 chain rings. Or you can get 'compact' 110 BCD spider with either standard compact chain rings (50x34) or semi-compact chain rings (52x36).
Ryan tells me he likes his 50x34 combination a lot. OK, he's not a sprinter. But the difference between 52 and 53 is not much. The 34 or 36 (vs 39) will allow you to have a more compact (and therefore lighter) cassette. And the 110 BCD will allow you to swap with your 'cross bike. Furthermore, Cannondale sells a wide variety of integrated spider/chain ring assemblies that look extremely light and stiff. Once you have the spider changing tool, you can swap these at will. You can even get a 135 BCD spider for the Cannondale cranks and install my old Campy chain rings if you want.
You can get standard 130 BCD spider with 53x39 chain rings. Or you can get 'compact' 110 BCD spider with either standard compact chain rings (50x34) or semi-compact chain rings (52x36).
Ryan tells me he likes his 50x34 combination a lot. OK, he's not a sprinter. But the difference between 52 and 53 is not much. The 34 or 36 (vs 39) will allow you to have a more compact (and therefore lighter) cassette. And the 110 BCD will allow you to swap with your 'cross bike. Furthermore, Cannondale sells a wide variety of integrated spider/chain ring assemblies that look extremely light and stiff. Once you have the spider changing tool, you can swap these at will. You can even get a 135 BCD spider for the Cannondale cranks and install my old Campy chain rings if you want.
Jan 31, 2014 at 06:52 PM
That is really the salient feature of Stages... your are one allen key away from moving it to another bike...yes you would have to swap out the pedal...but still. I think for my needs a Stages will be plenty. Coming from a Powercal, the Stages might as well be an SRM. The dual Ant + and Blue Tooth is pretty cool...I can use my phone to calibrate it and update firm ware. The power2max is also an awesome deal considering you get the crankset for $200 more...It's likely another month before I see the Stages meter...which gives me time to change my mind at least 5 more times....
Jan 31, 2014 at 06:53 PM
Flame bait taken. Before I got mine, my coach referred to power data from a CX race as "pure gold." #YMMV as he was talking about my training and what we already knew about my road power numbers.dstokes said:
As flame bait I'll also say that power on a 'cross bike isn't as critical. The majority of the cardiovascular training will be done on the road bike. When on 'cross bikes we are usually either training skills or racing. About the only thing I use my computer for when riding 'cross is to judge whether my heart is about to explode.
For what it's worth I learned quite a bit. It's worth repeating that I almost never look at my computer during races - and I only use a screen that shows me elapsed time (or distance, depending on the race.) The after-race analyses are very useful though.
Jan 31, 2014 at 07:06 PM
Power data is fun to look at always.
Jan 31, 2014 at 07:08 PM
http://road.cc/content/review/98411-stages-power-meter
A good review from the Brits who are notoriously hard to please...(that last bit is conjecture). I ride Rotor Q-Rings so any power meter I get is going to have a case of beer googles trying to capture data...though a left side crank reading that is not dependent on the stiffness of my chainrings might actually be better in my case than one affixed closer to those rings (drive side).
Jan 31, 2014 at 07:28 PM
@Yacks - I know I read it somewhere but I can't remember where at the moment, but the Power2Max PM is supposed to handle Q rings well. The comment that I remember is that the strain gauges aren't measuring at the chainring bolts but elsewhere within the spider. That is the reason why you can change chain rings without having to recalibrate and also why the Q rings are handled ok. I distinctly recall the comment (coming from a P2P person) claimed it was their secret sauce. I'd guess it is measuring at the connection between the spider and crankarm.
All that said, Stages, because it is on the left crank arm has the same benefits. You can change chainrings and don't have to worry about recalibration. I'd imagine that there is no issue measuring with Q rings either.
All that said, Stages, because it is on the left crank arm has the same benefits. You can change chainrings and don't have to worry about recalibration. I'd imagine that there is no issue measuring with Q rings either.
Jan 31, 2014 at 09:11 PM
Power2Max and stages both use accelermeters in lieu of reed switches (srm quarc) for cadence. This apparently helps with chainring orientation during data collection...don't ask me how, but these two meters may do a better job than others when using warped chainrings. My problem with power2max lies in the bulbous crank to spider junction. After my bike fit, ACME has my feet slammed as close to the cranks as he could get them for proper knee alignment. Consequently, my cankles will likely be smashing into the bulging spider (that is a mouthful). As you can see from the pics...Rival cranks offer a much more recessed and cankle friendly profile. Looking at the power2max, after viewing the Rival cranks makes me think....Baby got BACK !!! Cue obligatory jpeg. of Sir Mix-A-Lot
Jan 31, 2014 at 11:09 PM
Hate to be a hater, but I don't think you'll ever really need the 53. I've been running a 52 for years and with an 11, there have been precious few times when i've spun out--and it hasn't cost me anything in a race.Brendan Rigby said:Stokes, you know nothing of flaming. Saying "as I said ten times above" is much better flame bait than stating a legitimate opinion about something related to training.I didn't realize 53T 110BCD chainrings existed. Where can I buy them? That is a game-changer.
53x11-130.09 inches
52x11-127.64 inches
50x11-122.73 inches
It will be a rare day when you're actually sprinting in a 53x11 at 120rpm. That's 45mph. You don't need the 53 for sprinting, you need it for attacking or chasing downhill.
Here's a cool site for doing calculations http://www.machars.net/bikecalc.htm
Jan 31, 2014 at 11:25 PM
My 53 x 11 got filthy dirty one day at Floyd when there was a killer tailwind. Of course I need my 39 x 25 when I had to turn into this wind.
Feb 01, 2014 at 12:17 AM
Related...with all the P2P chatter. Does this mean PowerTap is but a distant memory? (It's not you, it's me) Like our first love that we'll always remember fondly?