Jules said:

There really should be some kid of standard. "Use the wrong tire and our wheel fails catastrophically" feels pretty harsh.

http://www.velonews.com/2017/06/news/pro-says-tire-caused-skys-catastrophic-wheel-failure-at-tirreno_439821 

This is a team sponsored by Shimano.  Shimano's tech people almost certainly told Sky's mechanics of a minimum tire width.  And If Shimano's people didn't, Sky's mechanics should have known to ask.

No pro mechanic would assume a SRAM BB would work with Shimano cranks, nor would any mechanic just assume any seatpost would work in any frame.  

bullshit, the wheel failed because they were not properly tested or built, they are simply trying to save face by making an after the fact escape goat excuse.

I have my own suspicions about those wheel failures...they are weighing bikes to detect motors now...especially the wheels...maybe those wheels were made intentionally light to offset something going on in the hubs.  It's SKY we are talking about right?  The team with the biggest budget ergo the best equipment...also a team with an increasingly shady past of breakout performances....jiffy bags...TUE's...non member of MPCC...post race needle's...team leader with a suspicious pedaling cadence...should I go on?

eloy said:

bullshit, the wheel failed because they were not properly tested or built, they are simply trying to save face by making an after the fact escape goat excuse.

While it's within the realm of possible, Sky had been racing very identical looking  tri-spoke wheels since 2014, and the wheel first hit the market in 2014.  

If it was improperly tested or built, it's surprising that it took three years for a failure to occur.  It's hard to believe that these three Sky riders in one race were the first to hit potholes while racing the wheels. 

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

New Tarmac....looks radically different

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/new-specialized-tarmac-spotted-at-criterium-du-dauphine/

looks like a carbon version of the Allez, which they been racing and selling in alloy for years now.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/men/bikes/road/performance/allez

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/red-hook-crit

eloy said:

looks like a carbon version of the Allez, which they been racing and selling in alloy for years now.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/men/bikes/road/performance/allez

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/red-hook-crit

It does.  The seatpost and seat tube are quite a bit smaller (probably for better compliance and a bit of weight-savings), and there are direct-mount brakes.  Interesting to see this change in direction.  Wondering if they're keeping the Tarmac geometry.  

I was perplexed by the direct mount brakes....isn't everything going road discs next year?

twoyacks said:

I was perplexed by the direct mount brakes....isn't everything going road discs next year?

No.  

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/british-cycling-asks-team-sky-to-leave-offices-at-manchester-velodrome/

That team SKY...and in the spirit of "marginal gains" they have been told the East facing exit has a tailwind...and to watch the door does not hit them in the ass on the way out (that would really hurt what with all those needle holes on their bums)

ZING

Wow Bicycling magazine...what an in depth analysis....eat your heart out D.C. Rainmaker!

Respect to Stages on their design development. Ability to customize device on the desktop is fantastic. Also, legible read-outs, user workflow geared for competitive cyclists. The only thing that will hurt them is their subscription model, ultimately they're saying it's not your data to do what you want with.

That computer is "laterally stiff and vertically compliant" !!!

JohnMalcolmson said:

Respect to Stages on their design development. Ability to customize device on the desktop is fantastic. Also, legible read-outs, user workflow geared for competitive cyclists. The only thing that will hurt them is their subscription model, ultimately they're saying it's not your data to do what you want with.

This unit seems more for people who ride indoors than out, though the size also appeals to the reading glasses set.  

Regarding the subscription model, I wonder if this has as much or more to do with their indoor training business.  Peloton is the big force indoors, and they do subscriptions. 

what's the pricing on their subscription?  the model seems pretty common now (trainingpeaks, strava premium, zwift...) and the prices are sometimes tolerable.  i haven't looked into it but do they let you export your data at all?  or they keep it all scrooge-like?  if so, lame

mugwump said:

This unit seems more for people who ride indoors than out, though the size also appeals to the reading glasses set.  

. 

Hey!

^ I have to chime in on the tire topic: 28mm tires are a night and day experience. I knew they rolled faster (albeit a little heavier for your attack on the Tourmalet), but wow, the ride quality is orders of magnitude better than 25's. I had *just enough* clearance to fit one on the back, front is a no-go (do some measuring to see if they'll fit your frame before purchasing). Road shock, road noise, mech noise!? are majorly dampened, cornering and comfort is niiicccceee. Running @ 90psi, but they'll roll even quicker with less air.
Edit: switching from 4-Seasons probably has something to do with it too.

JohnMalcolmson said:

^ I have to chime in on the tire topic: 28mm tires are a night and day experience. I knew they rolled faster (albeit a little heavier for your attack on the Tourmalet), but wow, the ride quality is orders of magnitude better than 25's. I had *just enough* clearance to fit one on the back, front is a no-go (do some measuring to see if they'll fit your frame before purchasing). Road shock, road noise, mech noise!? are majorly dampened, cornering and comfort is niiicccceee. Running @ 90psi, but they'll roll even quicker with less air.
Edit: switching from 4-Seasons probably has something to do with it too.

I think switching from 4-Seasons (to what?) could have something major to do with it.
Also, 90psi?  Isn't that high for you at 28mm?  

As for weight, I compared identical tires.  Conti' GP 4000s II in 23 is listed as 205g, the 28 is listed as 260g.  That extra 55g is something I think one would notice on much shorter hills.  

That written, I usually ride 23mm.  All the same, I have race tires in 23 and 25, with the latter for FBF, Harlem, known rough courses, and I'm contemplating them for rainy days as well. It takes me less than 5 minutes to switch both tires on my Zipp wheels, which might also have figured in to my decision.  

edit: and, as my tires are tubed, I don't have to worry about goo, the drying thereof, and the difficulties of taking tubeless tires on and off.

the rim width is a also major factor in how wide the tires get and therefore how they ride.  on my road bike i run 23mm tires but my rims are relatively wide (19mm internal, 24mm external) so they measure out to 26mm.

on my wider yet disc brake rims (20mm internal, 24.5 external), i have 30mm tires that measure 32mm when mounted.  on my wider yet 29er MTB rims that I built into a cross/touring wheelset (21mm internal, 25mm external), my 32mm tires measure 34 when mounted.

i found that commuting on the 32mm tires wasn't slower than commuting on the 23mm tires on the 20mm rim, but the 34mm tires on the 21mm rim felt a lot slower.  no objective data for this though, only going by HR (which has its fluctuations) and the fact that i didn't set any PRs, ha

Brendan Rigby said:

no objective data for this though, only going by HR (which has its fluctuations) and the fact that i didn't set any PRs, ha

If you weren't wearing High-Viz I don't see how you could have been going top speed.

mugwump said:

Edit: switching from 4-Seasons probably has something to do with it too.

I think switching from 4-Seasons (to what?) could have something major to do with it.
Also, 90psi?  Isn't that high for you at 28mm?  

As for weight, I compared identical tires.  Conti' GP 4000s II in 23 is listed as 205g, the 28 is listed as 260g.  That extra 55g is something I think one would notice on much shorter hills.  

That written, I usually ride 23mm.  All the same, I have race tires in 23 and 25, with the latter for FBF, Harlem, known rough courses, and I'm contemplating them for rainy days as well. It takes me less than 5 minutes to switch both tires on my Zipp wheels, which might also have figured in to my decision.  

edit: and, as my tires are tubed, I don't have to worry about goo, the drying thereof, and the difficulties of taking tubeless tires on and off.

- GP 4000s II 
- I'm weighing in @ 200?! => 100/90psi works, lower probably better.
- +110g on a hill = least of my worries (a full bidon weighs 1lb)
- 28's are proven faster on Pave: "Coming out of the Pave portion of the testing the riders seemed to be truly sold on the larger tires once and for all.  The 28mm tire in the low-mid 60psi range proved to be nearly 1km/hr faster than the 24mm tire with pressure in the mid 70 psi range (which is what is required to prevent bottoming the tire) when the data was normalized for rider power output." Floyd must be somewhere in between.

A Contributing factor in getting the new TCR , was my frustration at not being able to run even some 25mm tires on the cannondale ,

Just installed 26s on my TCR. They look like the hotnesses.

JohnMalcolmson said:

- GP 4000s II 
- I'm weighing in @ 200?! => 100/90psi works, lower probably better.
- +110g on a hill = least of my worries (a full bidon weighs 1lb)
- 28's are proven faster on Pave: "Coming out of the Pave portion of the testing the riders seemed to be truly sold on the larger tires once and for all.  The 28mm tire in the low-mid 60psi range proved to be nearly 1km/hr faster than the 24mm tire with pressure in the mid 70 psi range (which is what is required to prevent bottoming the tire) when the data was normalized for rider power output." Floyd must be somewhere in between.

I'm still looking for something numeric on rotational inertia.  Generally, lower weight tires/rims are believed to accelerate better. 

Analytic Cycling's page doesn't isolate tires and rims.  http://www.analyticcycling.com/WheelsInertia_Page.html

As for Floyd being somewhere in between Roubaix and a smooth road, yes, but much closer to a smooth road than to Roubaix.  Having ridden the stones of Flanders (on 23mm tires, a mistake), even those stones are far rougher than Floyd.

At your weight, I'd think you'd be able to do 80psi front.  I ride 25's at around 80psi in front

^ Be nice if there was math for: it takes "X" extra watts to accelerate "Y" rim weight to +10kmph? My gut is an extra 100grams at rim is going to be a tiny amount of watts compared to what's needed to accelerate your body weight+bike.

mea culpa!  taking back what i said about the 34mm tires.  realized today that due to poor tubeless tape installation by yours truly (don't use 21mm tape if the rim requires 24mm tape), the rear tire has had a slow leak and been at < 40 PSI this entire time!  for tonight's commute it was at 28 psi.

when properly inflated, the 34mm tires might be performance neutral in a non-race setting.  they got me a strava top 10 this morning on my commute. although thats probably because i didn't bring a lunch an coffee, which add a couple pounds...